Cane rods

[the indifferent crucian]

You might look outside of fishing circles again and consider Coats products. Their Seta Reale is real silk, not as hairy as Fish Hawk and available in some fine thicknesses and colours.

Coats Crafts UK Sewing Threads

Go to Seta Reale and download the colour chart.....but I've used Duet OK in finer thicknesses

http://www.coatscrafts.co.uk/NR/rdo...96B7-6F4D4EC9B16F/2790/SetaRealeShadeCard.pdf

I think 578, allowing for darkening under dope, would be the one to try....

The only one I've used so far says ...


80 metres NR 100

So I'd guess it's what they call Ticket100 in the charts,...

It is fine to use....a lot better than other so called silks I have used, but I have yet to try any red shades, only having used the green 455 shade so far.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Thanks Nobby - I'll have a browse at my local Dunelm Mill store (good for beads for fly tying as well!)

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Well I had to go into town today ( shudder!) so I called in at the local embroidery store. The Coats display had a range of colours that was so close to some of the 'famous' old silks colours.

An 80 metre spool of NR 100 was just £2.50...and that's Surrey prices!

I must point out that this is thin, thin silk. It looks superb under a few coats of varnish, it positively shines, but it is a complete bas**** to work with!

It is so thin it rides up over itself and starts winding backwards at the drop of a hat. So you change the angle of the wind to correct this and get gaps! Arrrrrrrrrgh!!!!



It responds best to a thick coat of dope which is 'fingered-in' after about 15 seconds to allow it to penetrate, which removes most of the dope ( onto your finger). It might be good with French Polish too, but I have yet to try it.


The other source of note at the moment is Pipers.......


Fishermen's Silks | Split-cane fishing rods | rod builders | whipping | flies for fly-fishing | rod restoration | rod building | Pipers Silks


Stacks of colours...access the chart by clicking 'Buy Online' on the above page, here it is....

Buy Online | Colour Chart | Fine Twisted Silks | Pipers Silks


And it's even cheaper at 100metres for £1.10.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Just bought a spool of the 578 at Dunelm - £2.10. It looks very good and it can't be any worse than the extra fine Pearsalls I've been using for intermediate whips.

 

[S-Kippy]

I always find them a bit heavy in the hand so I'm considering a 24 inch handle on mine

I've always thought that too but I'm loathe to start messing about with it.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

That 17 inch handle on the Wizard is wierd. One rod builder thinks it was designed that way as Wallis held the rod with the reel at the bottom, a la fly rod, to balance it. Might be true...here he is.....

The fabulous famous FWK Wallis Cast by Phil - Article - PurePiscator.com

I used a butt extension on mine to give me an extra 3 inches and it's fine. Many folk re-build the entire cork handle, turning the wood down and using shives, going further up the cane over the transfer.

Wizard by Name

The nice thing about the butt extension is that it does no damage to affect re-sale value.

 

[S-Kippy]

I am not brave enough to mess about with the handle but I would like to have a go at re-ringing it properly. I have high bells on it at present but they just dont look right. What should I be looking for or are these OK ?

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Well the first rods were offered with wooden or cork sheet handles and low bells lined rings as options. The lined ring rods were later re-named Super Wizard.

All Wizards seem to originally have had agatine lined stand-off tip and butt rings with the intermediates being low bells rings.

The Wizard officionado, John Ollif-Cooper is of the opinion that the lined rings are too heavy and spoil the rod's action. He also thinks the rod has too few rings on it, though I'd have thought adding extra rings would add to the weight, particularly since he thinks it's the tip section that needs them. Any additional weight on a tip section has a marked effect on balance and feel.


So you must decide for yourself if you want historical accuracy or if you wish to follow his advice and 'improve' the rod.


I think I'd feel happiest with the tiniest stand off tip ring I could find...and that alone might equal the labours of Sissiphus.....with the smallest low bells available below it. Only Chapman's stock these now. With these light rings you might add the two extra John likes, without altering the rods action at all.


I can't link to John's old web-site, but if you do a Google on Black Label Wizard you will get a hit on a site hosted by Mistral. Open the link and you will find John's old text with links within to some photos. The Black Label Wizard Number 5 is owned by someone with whom I have been in correspondence with and he loves the rod.
There are two pictures which should be enough to work out where John puts the extra rings. You'll notice John likes to crush the rings to make them stand taller and thinner, presumably to stop the rod's action from being altered? I'm not sure I concur. It seems to me that bringing the two whippings nearer to one another will make the rod more likely to have a flat spot.


Very early rods had rings with the two legs at 90 degrees to one another allowing them to flex with the cane and not hinder its movement at all. The Wizard is such a soft rod, the 'easy action' as Wallis himself described it, that I'd be loathe to do anything that might stiffen it up anywhere.

 

[S-Kippy]

Thanks IC. I'm not seeking perfection but I've always thought my rod was short a ring or two so I understand where JOC is coming from. I'll try Chapmans or another source that I think might have something.

How did you extend your butt...as it were?

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Chapmans are the best, Skip, loads of help for such a small spend when I bought the other week.

They also have the sizes of rings. Sadly no agate or agatine ones though.

 

[S-Kippy]

Just had a look at their site.I think they'll have what I need.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

John's site

I'd be interested to hear what the ring spacings are on your Wizards as mine look a bit strange around the top joint. I've checked with a few other people on Fly Forums and the ring spacings on my rod look to be about the same as theirs, but this means that the top ring on the middle section is too close to the bottom ring on the bottom section. This looks to be how the rod was originally built as the varnish and the intermediate whippings look to be original - puzzling

I bought an Alicocks Isis on Ebay the other day and got a couple of really nice tip rings, a good butt ring and a few low bells rings. The greenheart tip section had been snapped, but everything else was in almost new condition. In fact it looks like the rod had hardly been used.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ----------

I'm a little puzzled by your last post IC. I've checked the Chapmans site and they offer either open bridge rings or high bells rings. I was under the impression that the low bells rings that were fitted were like high bells rings only about half the height. Am I missing something?

 

[the indifferent crucian]

You've lost me a bit Shaun. The site you link to is not JOC's.

Although Chapmans list their rings as from H&H, the smaller sizes, such as 1 and 2 are no longer made by H&H and John( Chapman) has them made independently. Therefore no one else has them in stock.


I saw that Isis, not a bad purchase and I think buying a cheapey Allcocks is the best way of obtaining the appropriate bits for other rods, though I do worry that if we all do it there won't be anything left one day????

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Oh, I was under the impression that that was J O-C's site. Never mind, it's a useful reference anyway!

You've confused me on the Wizard now IC! I take it that you're suggesting open bridge rings are a more accurate restoration of the original rod, rather than the high bells 'float' rings?

I must admit that I'm not 100% sure what rings to use as I'm unlikely to use mine much for float fishing as it's mainly trotting and the rod is a bit heavy for that (sacrilege! ), so really it will be used for general ledgering.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Hi Sean,
I think the original tip ring was like this....or perhaps just a little more stand-off..........


AGATE LINED ROD TIP RING on eBay (end time 26-Mar-11 15:55:03 GMT)


Judging by the bids it's getting, others like it too


The butt ring like this...but red agate and silver plated, not chromed......possibly more of a closed together bridge.....


AGATE LINED ROD RING on eBay (end time 26-Mar-11 15:49:51 GMT)

In fact I think the ring on the site you linked to is an original...

Cleaning the Rod Rings | Split Cane Fishing Rods

Certainly looks nickel-silver rather than chromed.



The intermediates I can't find any images of....Chapmans and H&H all have rings that sit high in their bridge, no low rings at all. I don't think the original shape is available any moreand all you can do is use low bells from Chapmans.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

I've now found some pictures of an un-restored Hardy Wallis Avon I briefly had. The pictures are very high def. and I'll send them to anyone who wants to look at the rings. Just pm your e-mails address.

Although not a Wizard, it is the rod they were based on so has some relevance and at least gives you an idea what to aim for ring-wise( or not)

 

[S-Kippy]

That's put the bids on those rings through the roof then.I was watching them !

 

[the indifferent crucian]

You, me and a few hundred others S-Kippy!

Do beware though, a lot of these old rings, particularly the tiprings, have cracks in them. Sometimes they can be hard to see...sometimes they are just a 'mark' in the insert. One can only be sure after running a strand of silk all around to feel for snags.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

The butt ring on mine is an original and I've now got a tip ring off the Isis. I'm probably going to use high bells rings and a period float rod tip ring (or at least an early 60s one) as these seem to be the accepted ones to use in a restoration.

H & H now do an 'agate' lined butt ring but the price is a bit steep at around £15. Norman Aggitters still have a reasonably piced agate lined rings, but every time I call to check on what 12mm means the bloke who knows the answer isn't in!

We'll have to organise a vintage day, with no rods or reels under 40 years old allowed. Maybe on Barton Court or the Upper Great Ouse?

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

I've got a butt ring.



A big one, never been used. High bell, 12.5mm hole (is this like you mean Sean?) lined agate. I was going to use it on the Octopus I'm refurbing, but decided that it was too big and used one of the modern lined high bells instead. I'm refurbishing it, not restoring it, I intend using it, not hanging it in a museum.

It wasn't right for the Octopus anyway since the originals were pink porcelain and looked cr@p!

 

[the indifferent crucian]

I hesitate to post this on such a massively subscribed to forum, but here goes.....


A good source of 'old' rings is from game rods which just aren't collectable at the moment.

Or a broken rod, sold for spares. I've got a butchered Hardy salmon worming rod with lined guides throughout...and that's on two tip sections as well as two tip rings and a great butt ring. It cost me nowt.


(I would imagine the use of the words 'great' and 'butt' in the same sentence have now caused the site to have many more visitors? )



But nothing will ever replace those low bells intermediate rings that sat tight onto the cane. They simply don't exist anymore...unless you know better.......?