Running or Fixed?

[Graham Marsden]

Leaving the question of fish safety to one side so as not to cloud the issue, do you think it makes any difference to the fish, where resistance is concerned, if the end tackle is fixed or running?

 

[tigger]

Leaving the question of fish safety to one side so as not to cloud the issue, do you think it makes any difference to the fish, where resistance is concerned, if the end tackle is fixed or running?

I did a litle experiment on a tench water early this year setting up two rods (11 ftdrennan superspecialist 1 1/4 test) with bobbins along with 5000 baitrunners. On one rod I had a 1 1/2 ounce flat weight attached to a small 3 to 4inch hooklength set up as a semi bolt rig and the other rod was set up with a small feeder on a running line. I was fishing the baits 30ft out and about 2ft appart. Both hooks (size 14 animals) where baited up with a peice of sweetcorn and a red and white maggot. I watched the bobbin rise and fall on the running rig before shooting up and hitting the rod but occassionally it bobbed up and down only to be left. I think it was left after the tincas felt the resistance. On the bolt rig rod the bobbin just fired up and rattled hard on the rod hooking the fish instantly and seemingly leaving them no chance of leaving the bait after sucking it in. I also noticed after the fish had nibbled the running set up and left it only a few seconds later I got a fish on the bolt rig. I think the fish just left the running rig and moved straight onto the bolt rig .

I forgot to mention, on the bolt rig set up I kept the same size hook and hooklength but hair rigged 2 peices of corn on and got the same result...seemingly perfect hook ups. I think you have much better hook ups using the bolt rig set up than a running rig. The bolt rig gives the fish very little chance to eject the bait without being hooked once in it's mouth where as with the running rig which does seem to give them time and chance to fiddle with the bait and spit it out on a lot of occassions without being hooked. All just me opinion after testing the two methods next to one another in exactly the same conditions.

 

[Frothey]

i mainly fish running rigs, but I'm less convinced it makes any difference in terms of hooking fish as there is still a fair amount of resistance unless freelining under the rod tip. less chance of cute/headshaking fish getting rid of the hook with a running rig though as they can't use the weight of the lead though.

 

[Ray Roberts]

My experiences are much the same as Tigger's, Positive hook up's on still-waters with semi fixed feeders.

I also fished a river recently and used a maggot feeder on the loop with worm tipped with red maggot, I experienced very positive bites and interestingly all of the fish were hooked towards the front of the mouth. Amongst my catch, I had several decent perch and all were hooked squarely in the scissors of their mouths none were deep hooked, this is contrary to the usual advice that is given regarding perch, in as far as the majority of advice is to use the lightest, most free-running set up possible.

During the same session I also hooked and landed a jack pike that was hooked with the shank of the hook still protruding from it's mouth. It may be that using semi fixed or bolt style rigs is actually a kinder method as far as perch are concerned as they are a species that tend to suffer from the ill effects of deep hooking.

 

[Graham Marsden]

I've been convinced for some time that it doesn't make a great deal, if any, difference. Most anglers imagine bites on running rigs as line being pulled through the swivel or run bead. It doesn't work like that unless you're using a very heavy lead or feeder, as most often the lead moves rather than the line pulling through. This is especially true on a river where the fish are inclined to move downstream on picking up the bait and dislodging the lead.

I reckon it's most often better for the fish to meet with a more solid resistance from a fixed rig than to pull against something that may give a little and suddenly eases off when the lead moves, and then back to offering resistance when it finds some purchase again.

 

[darrengeorge]

As frothey mentioned, the main advantage in most situations with a running rig, is the difficulty in ridding the hook as there is no fixed weight to shake around.

Tench and chub are the exception rather than the rule IMO. If I want to avoid tench, when carping for example, I find a running rig helps achieve this. A short - 3in - semi fixed hooklength nails them good and proper though.

There is no advantage to bite detection especially on a river where the flow creates tension in the setup.

 

[slime monster]

It probably makes no difference but I shall still fish with a light link leger or light feeder via a wand for Roach and Skimmers when the need arises ..I just feel better fishing that way.

 

[maver man]

Running set up when feeder fishing or straight lead on the quiver and fixed when carping but i use a safety rig so the ledger pulls off if in a snag.

Both work affectively for me when fished in their own way.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Does this depend on what sort of Bottom you are fishing over ?

A fixed lead with a short hook length on a silty bottom would be totally pointless, were as on a running lead might not pull the hook length under, or not as far.

Or am i talking out of my Silty Bottom ?

Would a running lead not act like a flying back lead, allowing the hook to be further away from the weight ?

Bangs head on desk ........................ i don't know anything

 

[bigbass]

I feel a bit overwhelmed

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

So many styles of fishing and so many types of situations to meet, whatever you feel confident doing on the day seem to be the most sensible approach.

Often people think with tunnel vision believing one method to be the best and decrying any other as a death or tether rig (oh damn, I said it again. Damn, damn, damn!)

There is no best rig, no safe rig, no sure rig. All are good and all can be bad in the best and worst situations.

So, a running rig will be the best at times, and at other times, a semi or fixed rig will work the best. Use your experience to dictate when and where.

PS experience is sometimes another word for having made mistakes, but hopefully we learn from them.

 

[Philip]

I think it took something like 7oz for a running lead to stay in place with the baitrunner on the lightest setting and a right angled pull…anything less and the lead moved so I always found it a bit strange to see rigs with say a 4oz lead setup to be running…even worse when it was supposed to be running on say tubing or lead core rather than just the line. Its just not going to happen …the lead will be moving on anything but a perfect in line pull from the fish.

When I was a kid and we did not really know about bolt rigs we tried to fish with the lightest lead possible to offer the least resistance. Even if the lead moved there was not allot of weight to put the fish off. I still do that when I go link ledgering on rivers for Chub, Roach or whatever and the majority of time when fishing like that I am fishing a tiny bomb of say an eigth of an oz or maybe quarter of an oz… just enough to reach the spot, get the bait to settle and put a slight bend in the tip. Given the tiny lead with a current and water density I am probably almost freelining and although on the take my lead may not « run » in the classic sense its still offering mimimal resistance to a taking fish.

Of course I could go the other way and stick on a load of lead and try to nail them as soon as they take it, both ways have a place.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Why would you want a running lead to stay in place, you might as well set it up as a semi fixed lead if you wanted to achieve that.

 

[Philip]

Because the idea of a running lead is that it runs on the line. i.e as the fish take the bait it pulls the line through the eye of the lead which does not move but sits in situ.

However as I (and others) have explained, in reality most of the time the lead moves anyway so running leads are not working as they were originally suggested to do.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Right, so a running lead, is really a running line, as the lead should remain stationary.

 

[Philip]

Yep Exactly. There are some anglers who try to purposely fish with very heavy leads in order to try and force the rig to fish like a true running lead . The theory is that as the pull on the line is transmitted directly to the indicator rather than some of it going towards shifting the lead across the bottom so resistance to the fish should be minimal…However in practice it takes a big lead to do this and most of the time the lead will move.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Right, so a running lead, is really a running line, as the lead should remain stationary.

In theory, in practice the lead is often moved as well when the fish takes. A light running lead can often be less sensitive than a heavier one depending on the conditions.

 

[tigger]

I think a running rig works best as it should in a still water and don't overtighten your line. Just enough pressure on the bait to put a slight bend in the quiver tip (so drop backs show) will allow the line to run enough to give a signal on the quiver before dislodging the lead. Just my theory folks !

 

[Ray Roberts]

I think a running rig works best as it should in a still water and don't overtighten your line. Just enough pressure on the bait to put a slight bend in the quiver tip (so drop backs show) will allow the line to run enough to give a signal on the quiver before dislodging the lead. Just my theory folks !

While this is true, the drop back only shows on the tip by the fish overcoming the inertia of the weight, it makes no difference if the lead is free running or not.

I have had really good results chub fishing using Lob-worm on the upper Medway in the past, by casting upstream with a swan shot link ledger that is just heavy enough to hold bottom against the flow and the tip tension. 90% of the bites are positive drop backs and very hard to miss. using this method bites usually occur almost straight away, if they don't then the bait can be twitched back a couple of feet every few minutes and the whole upstream swim can be explored in this way.

 

[tigger]

While this is true, the drop back only shows on the tip by the fish overcoming the inertia of the weight, it makes no difference if the lead is free running or not.

I have had really good results chub fishing using Lob-worm on the upper Medway in the past, by casting upstream with a swan shot link ledger that is just heavy enough to hold bottom against the flow and the tip tension. 90% of the bites are positive drop backs and very hard to miss. using this method bites usually occur almost straight away, if they don't then the bait can be twitched back a couple of feet every few minutes and the whole upstream swim can be explored in this way.

Yeah, I think a lot of the time with drop backs the fish have hooked themselves before you even strike.