link ledgering

[bigchub]

Additionally, the rig BigChub describes would not behave as a bolt rig if that amount of shot was just sufficient to hold bottom - it should wash down with the flow offering little or no resistance - unless it gets caught up on some rubbish on the bottom. I suspect that by introducing a longer link, the chances of this concept working efficiently is lost as there is so much more clutter on your rig to catch on weed, gravel etc..

This is exactly how I used it last year in the Waveney when we had those floods at the back end of the season and it worked a treat. By casting out into the main flow and letting a fair bit of slack line out, the rig was washed downstream but into the steadier water next to the near bank where the chub were lying up. After the rig had settled it was simply a case of steadily tightening up but without dislodging the rig from where it had settled.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

When rigged properly, i.e. with a length of line between the shot or weight and the main line the only thing the fish moves is the line and whatever you are using for a stop or stops. There is no pulling line through a swivel or moving shot. With today's options you could have a loop of line with a float stop creating a tiny loop that ran along the main line and was stopped by another float stop. Once you cast and everything goes tight the only thing that the fish moves is the link line and a float stop.

But, the best use is in still water when ledgering for shy biting species or when float-ledgering as it offers the least resistence of any rig.

In most running water situations you get a downstream bow in the line. When this occurs the first thing the fish feels is the weight that you are using. Chav is right in that in these circumstances you might as well attach the weight directly to the main line. It's more important to get the weight right so that it just holds bottom.

I accept that in some circumstance a link ledger will minimise resistance when used in still water, but only if the fish swims directly away from the rod.

 

[nicepix]

In most running water situations you get a downstream bow in the line. When this occurs the first thing the fish feels is the weight that you are using. Chav is right in that in these circumstances you might as well attach the weight directly to the main line. It's more important to get the weight right so that it just holds bottom.

I accept that in some circumstance a link ledger will minimise resistance when used in still water, but only if the fish swims directly away from the rod.

"In most running water situations you get a downstream bow in the line. When this occurs the first thing the fish feels is the weight that you are using."

Only with a fixed lead though. A running lead set up puts the resistance at the rod, i.e quiver tip, bobbin, etc. I don't share the fixation with fixed lead rigs.

"but only if the fish swims directly away from the rod."

That is one reason I use a sliding link rather than the fixed loop that was popular in the 60's. Drop back bites on the 'tip were caused by fish swimming back and moving the lead. Usually by then though they had hooked themselves.

With fish like bream that lift the bait, the link ledger set up offers the least initial resistance. That is the main way I use it, sometimes under a float in weedy swims.

On rivers it allows you to lift your main line and hook length off the bottom to give your bait some movement. I think that was the initial reason for its inception. Working a bait across the current. Much easier with a link than a line through a lead IMO.

 

[chav professor]

With small baits like maggots, I am sure the fish either feels the tip and pricks itself - or perhaps even the weight of the feeder - tough to be certain in practice. In many instances the angler further sets the hook or the fish has indeed hooked itself. On a clear lake bed I am sure the link ledger offers some advantages.....

The link ledger has however become synonymous with river chubbing. Most named anglers use or describe its use in some detail.

If using a bigger bait (paste or luncheon meat) or a bread flake bait where the chances of self hooking are slim, I prefer the fish to confidently move off with the bait with minimal resistance - this is my aim anyway..... I am certain this happens for the above and would certainly be achieved if they did away with the link ledger.

The balanced lead ensures it moves with at least minimal resistance assisted by the flow and resistance pushing against the line. If possible to introduce a bow when fishing down stream - either through slack line or a bow formed in the flow. The distance of the link relating to how far a fish like a chub could move? possibly 0.5 or 2 ft to achieve the benefits. I don't tend to fish with the tip tightened to the weight if I can get away with it.

you could also factor in that fish don't always move in the planned direction to get full benefit of a link ledger. I do get some crazy bites sometimes that are difficult to translate even....I have had fish indicate a bite by the tip going in completely the wrong direction - or failing to get the line to behave as planned as the fish has taken the bait on the drop and on reeling to correct what I assume to be a problem, being surprised when a fish kicks off unexpected.

Up-streaming? I aim to strike as soon as the tip 'collapses'.... usually get a knock on the tip prior to the line relaxing.

Perhaps my approach is not really traditional ledgering, but attempting to achieve the benefits of free-lining with the constraints of having to use a bit of shot on the line.

 

[Philip]

Hang on lets get a few things right here as I think some people are getting confused.

«Running» leads rarely -if ever- work as they are supposed to i.e the line pulling nicely through the eye of a weight and transmitted directly to the indicator at the rod. Unless your using a truly massive weight and I mean half a pound minimum, the reality is that in virtually every real fishing situation the lead will move.

So for tiny weights that are generally used on link ledgers you dont use it to enable the line to run freely through the loop...it just wont happen. The main benefit I can see with a link ledger (and why I use them) is as several have mentioned simply to avoid pinching shot directly onto your mainline.

I HATE the idea of pinching shot onto line...I really don't know why something better has not been invented yet as we go to so much trouble to use the most modern super duper mega fine, supple, smooth and so on lines and take incredible care tying knots making sure we lubricate before pulling tight and so on but then we basically crush a bit of metal directly on the line and start sliding it up and down !

Its nuts when you think about it ! I don't mind when I am after bits but if I am after big fish I rarely if ever put shot directly on my line. If you HAVE to use shot on the line when after big fish were one bite can be the only one for a very long time then one way round it is to pinch the shot onto a tiny piece of silicon sleeved onto the line first but even then you need to use care.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

What about Ledger Stops?. Several varieties available. I use these in preference to shot, but then again i do have shot on the line float fishing so it can be done - although admittedly it dont need to take the weight of a feeder or ledger weight so can be attached more delicately.

If I am using a weaker hooklength i will position the Ledger Stop just above the loop-loop knot on the mainline. with a custom bank-tied tail of 1-3ft or whatever. Old skool i know - but havwe never had a break off where the Ledger Stop is. Invariably i lose a hook if i get snapped, very rarely the hooklength will break at the loop. I think loop-loop is the strongest way of joining lines.

 

[chav professor]

Good old swan shot pinched gently on the line.... never had a problem. but can see what you are saying.

I want a nice simple rig that is infinitely changeable without breaking my tackle down. this is why I first did away with the link ledger - it just did not offer the flexibility I was after. I am certain that on average, the presentation I achieve in this more direct form is a lot more reliable than having a seperate piece of line with shot atatched.

One swim I can be free lining a slug or slow sinking bread bait. pinch on a shot I can start ledgering on the bottom. go to a pacier swim, pinch on a few more shot. I am that confident, that I can say the presentation and bites I get are every bit as good, if not better - plus in the back of my mind, I don't even need to consider snagging or tangling of a spare bit of line...

As for inventing something better....... plastercine! Can't quite get my head around it, but rolling meat enthusiasts on the Royalty seem to do very well indeed on it.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

As for inventing something better....... plastercine! Can't quite get my head around it, but rolling meat enthusiasts on the Royalty seem to do very well indeed on it.

You might like to try Kryston Heavy Metal Christian. Almost as heavy size for size as split shot and won't damage the line. Instructions here

For weights up to say the equivalent of several swan shot it's a really good alternative to pinching shot on the line and a fair bit less conspicuous.

 

[reeds]

I use a running link leger when quivertipping for chub or legering for perch (usually with a bobbin). With the chub I use as little weight as I can get away with so it just holds in the flow after paying out lots of slack line, usually 2 or 3 swan shot. With the perch I use a much heavier weight so it doesn't move, usually a flat 1.5oz pear lead, which allows the line to be pulled through the run ring and lift the bobbin.

I've used quite a few different types of link leger over the years, and the one I've settled on for chub and perch suits me as it gives very confident bites that are hard to miss, and never tangles. I can understand the concerns about too many knots and making it too complicated, but to be honest as long as the materials you use are up to it and are there for a good reason, and all your knots are tied well and tested properly, what looks like a fiddly rig can be worth the extra bit of hassle.

I always use a hooklength rather than tying the hook direct to the mainline. Good hooklength materials are, in my opinion, far superior to most mainlines when it comes to presentation. I want a mainline that's verging on indestructable and a hooklength that's thin, supple, hard to see, and as strong as is needed for the target species. Most mainlines are too thick and stiff in comparison.

So I make up little links by tying about 6" of thick mainline (usually 15lb sensor) to a plastic wide bore run ring and sliding a short anti tangle sleeve over the knot and run ring eye. Swan shot are pinch on at the other end.

The mainline (usually 6lb sensor) goes through the run ring, followed by two plastic or rubber beads, and then a small swivel. The hooklength (usually 6lb Drennan hooklength material of a suitable length) is tied to the other end of the swivel, with another anti tangle sleeve over the knot and swivel eye, with the hook tied at the other end.

Some may say that 1 knot is better than 3, but if the 3 knots never fail it's all much of a muchness! I'd prefer to have a stout mainline and more supple hooklength.

I also don't mind that the length of the hooklength being fixed. If I need to use a longer hooklength for a particular swim I'll tie a new one on, it only takes 30 seconds. It's rare I feel the need to though.

I'm sure the chub version is not free running in the strictest sense (unlike the perch version with the heavier weight and tighter line) but by letting it settle and then paying out a big bow, a chub is able to pick up the bait and move a fair way before really feeling anything; the line does pull through the run ring a bit and the weight does trundle downstream a bit, but the most inportant bit is that the tip pulls round without the fish feeling it. I'm sure a lot of the issues people have with unhittable taps and knocks when chubbing are down to simply fishing with too tight a line, so the fish feels the tension of the tip and drops the bait.

With roach I do something different again, and fish directly out in front of me with a standard running leger/feeder which only just holds bottom after paying out a bow of line. Like upstream legering, the fish dislodges the feeder which causes the tip to bounce and fall slack, giving the roach loads of time to hold onto the bait, and I'm sure often hooking themselves in the process.

 

[chav professor]

So my 12lb line straight through to the hook may be a bit conspicuous
I simply throw this in as even in the clearest conditions they pick up a bait without any hesitation using incredibly course tackle.

Bigger baits I found you could get away fishing very heavy indeed.... scaling down to present smaller baits like maggots appropriately down to 1lb14oz if need be for chub.

If you can eliminate or reduce the resistance felt by the fish engaging with a bait, they are not line shy. I agree, if you are getting unhittable bites, there is too direct a contact between the tip and the bait.

Common sense prevails, a maggot on a size 18 hook won't behave 'naturally' if the line is not supple...........

 

[Philip]

As for inventing something better....... plastercine! Can't quite get my head around it, but rolling meat enthusiasts on the Royalty seem to do very well indeed on it.

Yes good point...I always have some plastercine in my tackle bag as I occasionally use it instead of heavy metal basically because it was allot cheaper ! ...however one problem I had with one particularly stinky batch was false bites as the fish were taking that ! ...one place it got so bad I actually considered sticking it on the hook...

Just wanted to go back to the point about ledger stops as I have never been completely happy with any I have used and nowadays I just use tiny pieces of silicon tubing with a bit of cocktail stick stuck in it which works great, holds tight but does not damage the line but the "downside" is that it floats! ...now although it probably makes little if any difference I just dont like the idea of it floating (I am a bit paranoid like that) ... so I am still on the look out for the "ultimate" ledger stop.

How good are the Drennen gripper stops ? ...I have never used them but they seem to get some good press.... how well do they grip in a practical situation ...for example will it slide or stay put with say a half ounce lead on a reasonable overhead cast ? ...and does anyone know if they float or sink ?

Anyone know any other good alternatives out there ? ...grips well, slides easy when needed, sinks and causes zero line damage ...

 

[reeds]

I guess if you have rogue barbel or carp to contend with 12lb line could be useful, realistically the biggest fish I'm likely to come across fishing in this way is chub, so 6lb seems plenty strong enough! I want the bait to behave as naturally as possible, plus the higher diameter of the mainline, the more weight you need to hold in the flow as the pressure on the line is greater. With a 1.25lb tc rod I doubt I'd be able to exert even 6lb of pressure anyway. When I get snagged and have to pull for a break it takes a huge amount of pressure on a direct pull to break the hooklength.

I'm not having a go btw, if it works then it works

To be honest I don't think it matters much where chub are involved, as long as they aren't given a reason to drop the bait. My main criteria is that it doesn't tangle. However, I find that perch are a lot less forgiving, and try to do whatever I can to not put them off. Perch that have been fished for (the bigger ones in any case) are in my opinion some of the trickiest fish around.

 

[nicepix]

Philip,
I have just the thing. Trouble is I can't remember where I got them.

Reeds,
You are right about the rod pressure. Years ago during a debate about the 30 - 50lb class tackle being used for sea fishing I bet my mate that he couldn't lift a gallon of water - 10lb with his rod and line. He is a big bloke, but he could barely get the bucket off the ground. His arms were shaking and sweat was pouring from his forehead, but the bucket would not come up. That was a 50lb class 7' boat rod so I think you'd be struggling to lift 1lb with a conventional Avon rod.

The thing is though, it's not just the rod pressure that the fish is fighting. It is the drag exerted on the line too.

 

[chav professor]

The drag exerted on the larger diameter 12lb line and the way it behaves as it comes off the spool is why it works. The line IS the indicator to a certain extent. When using a critically balanced amount of lead, or a free lined lump of bread is picked up, the line cuts across the surface straightening out the coils..... I would be surprised if the Chub ever feels the tip.

This slack line method was devised due to the lack of flow our eastern rivers suffer from.... If you tighten up to the bait, it is difficult to get a confident take which is why I did away with the link ledger in the first place.

Intriguingly, variations of this idea transpose quite elegantly on a range of venues and conditions - so it stuck. It surprised me that anglers still refer to 'fining' down to get bites, where this is clearly not the case - even on bright days, crystal clear water etc... it could be that fish avoid line that is hawser tight to a lead as it looks and behaves unnaturally. Perhaps a switch to lower diameter line has a benefit?????

Of course a carp is always a possibility and at least you have a chance.

Interestingly, I don't lock up the clutch and drag Chub in.... I do play my fish hard in tight swims, but the clutch is set to give line well before the rod locks up.

I can go light too...... This fish is my PB at 6lb4oz caught using 1lb14oz hook link Light line fishing is fun! Often the key is patience and nerves of steel - but this fish barely noticed it was hooked, was gingerly allowed to drop back upstream before swimming back down stream - on its return back upstream its head momentarily broke surface allowing it to be netted out. It was in the net within 2 minutes. The reason so light? They would not touch a bait on line any thicker.... I had hooked and lost a fish the previous day from the same swim where the 3.2lb line mysteriously parted for no reason........ My thoughts are that the bait - a single maggot - behaved in a far more natural way.

For stalking, well it has to be 6lb!!!

---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

i could add this fish just for irony..... Glad I was using 12lb line when this fish picked up a piece of cheese paste intended for a Chub.... gave a lovelly drop back bite!!!

21lb River pike!!!

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

 

[reeds]

It surprised me that anglers still refer to 'fining' down to get bites, where this is clearly not the case - even on bright days, crystal clear water etc...

------------------------------

The reason so light? They would not touch a bait on line any thicker....

I don't want to cause an argument, but aren't these quotes mutually exclusive?

Very good looking chub BTW!

I don't really enjoy fishing light, especially for chub with their short but brutal under the rop tip fight, so I go light enough that I can present the bait properly but heavy enough that I can clamp down, refuse to give line, and let the rod soak up the lunges at the snags. 6lb line seems to be a decent compromise, but I can understand a thicker line could be useful if you need a high diameter line to maximise the flow on the line.

 

[chav professor]

I don't want to cause an argument, but aren't these quotes mutually exclusive?

I see your point.

Big baits behave naturally with relatively thick line - in fact far thicker than you would ever need for chub...

My point being, that if you fish a big bait (bread/luncheon meat) might as well stick with 6lb, or whatever you are using rather than fining down. I try not to tighten up to the bait, in-fact if possible I want to introduce a bit of slack. Rivers are flowing and sinuous. Why make anything you put in the water appear out of place by tightening up to a link ledger so the tip is the first thing to move?


My interpretation was that for a small bait like a single maggot on a size 20 hook it behaved in a more natural way on the finer line.... as they had already been rattled the previous day, they never really got on the feed, they were just taking the odd maggot here and there. Double maggot on a size 18 didn't even get a sniff.

It was a very interesting fish to catch as I could actually see them and how they reacted.

 

[chav professor]

BTW, fishing light for chub is not as bad as it sounds. So long as you don't try to boss them out. Stef Horak described it really well when he said its like taking a dog for a walk.... if you pull, they pull back. its gentle pressure at best. I found it helped to use my index finger on a pin to reel in to keep contact and gentle thumb pressure on the rim to apply a bit of pressure. They seem confused and don't quite know what to make of it. Line of around 2lb is strong enough to hold and net a played out chub - or take advantage as the opportunity arises to net the fish.

If I were to use a fixed spool reel, I would not rely on the clutch, but rather backwind. I don't do it a great deal - I would be interested of anyone elses experiences.

If you clamp down, the fish panics, bolts and thats the end of it! I know this from bitter experience - especially hard keeping calm if its a VERY big chubmg:

 

[bigchub]

Mark Wintle wrote the following on another forum last year and thought it may be relevant -

They get big chub on light lines and small hooks <18 by playing them with much softer rods and leading them in not hauling them. The last three big chub I've had accidently, all over 6lbs, have been on an 18 to 2lbs, 20 to 1.5lbs and 14 to 2lbs - all fine wire hooks. All have tried for snags yet been played out without too much trouble in winter. In my match days when chub were usually only 3-4lbs, rarely 5lbs, we typically used 20 hooks to 1.1 Bayer and dropped to 22s if it was hard. Had them in matches to 4-08 on 22s and 12oz line. The trick was to lead them in hence the term 'dog chub'. The last carp I had was 7lbs and I was fishing for roach with 12oz line and a 22. I knew what I'd hooked and just led it in and scooped it first time - length of fight - 30 seconds! It does take practice though.

The very short tail feeder method advocated by Stef Horak with maggots is fished with 2lb line and a 20 but he doesn't bully them.

Also like you Christian if I was using very light hook lengths I'd also backwind than play off the clutch. No matter how well you think you have the clutch its not worth taking chances with small hooks and fine hooklengths. Thats why you don't strike when fishing with really short, low diameter, low breaking strain hooklengths - if you did you would snap it like cotton.

 

[nhs service]

Clutches have definitely improved on the better fixed spools over the years,the trouble is,once you have played fish on a pin you are just wary of anything else.
I have had a fixed spool completely sieze up on me after a fast run from a carp, and if you have set the clutch fairly light,having to tighten up is just one more thing to do when you want to be concentrating on the fish.
All the best.

 

[bigchub]

Feeder fishing with a centrepin just doesn't seem 'right' to me, yet I'm quite happy to bolt rig with them for chub. Strange person that I am! :wh