roach bream hybrids

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

I agree about true fish and the records Paul.

If there is any doubt it shouldn't be a record, but it could then become a hybrid record.

As for the fish I caught, I don't know anyone who didn't think it was a true Roach, but i know plenty who doubt the record now. But that is all History now.

 

[preston96]

I agree about true fish and the records Paul.

If there is any doubt it shouldn't be a record, but it could then become a hybrid record.

As for the fish I caught, I don't know anyone who didn't think it was a true Roach, but i know plenty who doubt the record now. But that is all History now.

Thats just it Ray......we have to try and leave a history of angling,

 

[flightliner]

Having thought about the R/B hybrid I took the other day it's occured to me that in a way I was rather privaliged to take it as it seems that fish of this size are pretty rare-- perhaps even more so than large roach (?). Another thought was that holding one gives the captor some idea of what it must be like to take a roach of similar proportions (awesome)if by some quirk of natuure one ever did reach such a size.
On a lighter note and somewhat tonque in cheek- because its mom was a roach and its dad was a bream can I discard the hybrid tag and just claim a 3-7 northern roach and a 3-7 bream instead????.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

On a lighter note and somewhat tonque in cheek- because its mom was a roach and its dad was a bream can I discard the hybrid tag and just claim a 3-7 northern roach and a 3-7 bream instead????.

.

In a word, NO.................

 

[dezza]

During the 60s I caught a number of rudd/bream hybrids in Ireland. They were very attractive fish and fought like rainbow trout.

How heavy some where I have forgotten, but the biggest was about 5 lbs.

Roach/bream? I cannot remember ever catching one.

 

[jcp01]

Whilst fishing an ancient old pond for crucians just recently, I have been also catching half pound roach x rudd hybrids that fight like stink! Mind you, you still know when it's a crucian you have on...

Another pond just a stone throw away from the crucian pond has a big head of rudd to around the pound mark. What's interesting about this pond is that there seems to be two distinct strains of pure rudd living side by side, one with your typical rudd colouration, golden scales, crimson fins and ventral keel - the other with a distinct pigeon chest, brassy scales and fins only tinged with red. Both strains have identical upturned mouths.

 

[flightliner]

In a word, NO.................

Ray-- I expected that !!

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Ray-- I expected that !!

hahaha......................

 

[andy nellist]

Roach X Bream hybrids and Common Carp x Goldfish hybrids are not sterile.

Fish that have at least one Roach x Bream hybrid or Common Carp x Goldfish hybrid as a parent have been found in waters in the UK.

In controlled breeding programs triple hybrids have been produced such as Roach x Bream x Chub.

Identification would make having a Roach x Bream record very difficult to maintain.

I've had a Roach x Bream of 7lb 1oz and 7lb 3oz (different fish). Alan Wilson had one from Wilstone at 8lb 14oz and I saw one of 8lb 1oz caught there by Bob Henderson on 17th June 1991.

 

[tortoise100]

Not sure why so many people think most of them would be sterile when breeding tropical fish you have to be careful and not just with the egg scatter's (like roach,rudd,bream and chub)totally different types of cichlids from different contents will decide to pair up and raise a little brood of almost value-less fish.
Look up Parrot fish (the tropical one)or flower horns if you want to see truly ugly fish that is the result of some strange breeding.
I know lions and tigers, donkeys and horses etc are sterile but most fish are too similar .

 

[preston96]

Not sure why so many people think most of them would be sterile when breeding tropical fish you have to be careful and not just with the egg scatter's (like roach,rudd,bream and chub)totally different types of cichlids from different contents will decide to pair up and raise a little brood of almost value-less fish.
Look up Parrot fish (the tropical one)or flower horns if you want to see truly ugly fish that is the result of some strange breeding.
I know lions and tigers, donkeys and horses etc are sterile but most fish are too similar .

I think it is because of the donkey/horse thing that people think hybrid fish are sterile.....even bird keepers rear "mules".

I'm no scientist, just a long time angler whose eye have seen many strange fish!

If folk want to think hybrids are infertile let them, i know some of them are certainly fertile.

 

[andreagrispi]

They must breed - to get so many different looking fish.

The 6lb 2oz one I had looked just like one of Grahams - yet I had one this spring of about 2lb 12oz which looked almost like a roach - even it's fins had a pink colouration.

If you get a roach and a bream the resultant offspring would be a 50-50 mix of both parents. If then the hybrid engaged with a pure bream, the mix would slide towards further bream type traits. Obviously there are dominant and recessive genes - this would also influence the end product.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Just because the fish are fertile doesn't mean they are especially successful at breeding. What has been found is that in some cases the female hybrid is fertile but the male hybrid is not. Also the incidence of genetic defects is greater with hybrids and greater still post F1. This greatly affects survival rates. These factors tend to keep the species pure rather than ending up with a homogeneous mixed hybrid dominating.

The look of the fish may be affected by which species is the mother as well as the usual differences, local environmental differences and local races of fish.

Additionally some hybrids occur but people cannot recognise them because they don't expect them. This is especially true of silver bream hybrids which often occur in the same waters as more common hybrids such as roach x bream (the Thames at Medley is a place you might find them). It's hard enough getting people to recognise the difference between silver bream and roach x bream hybrids. Funnily enough I had a load of roach x bream hybrids from a gravel pit this week and a silver bream today, and at a glance they do look similar yet the body shape is very different.