Wallis Casting??

[wooster]

I have been looking around the internet for a few days preparing for my first coarse trip for a good few years. I aim to trot for chub and I have my centre pin looked out ready to go.

I've had a few bashes at the Wallis cast and TBH I haven't found it very hard. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? It seems the line goes more or less the distance I want ( within reason ) although accuracy is a little umm hit and miss.

I can't help wondering if all this mystery of the cast isn't a bit overblown. Am I oversimplifying things?

I also got to wondering how often on a smallish river I'd actually need to use it. I came to the conclusion that pulling some line from the rings would suffice in just about every situation I would be in for the foreseeable. I'm not fishing the Trent or anything!

I then wondered why we just didn't pull a load of line off and let it lie either at our feet or perhaps on a line tray ( as used by Fly fishermen from time to time ) and cast the float out in the same way as pulling the lines through the loops above. Surely it shouldn't give more chance of a tangle than the chances of birds nest with an imperfect Wallis if treated carefully.

Anyway I'm concluding that all of these with limitations are fine ways to get the bait out and trot although I believe that the Wallis cast is a much more elegant and pleasurable style than the others, though not really necessary for my needs.

I also came across a video of an American chap using a cast which I'd never seen before. Here it is

http://wn.com/float_fishing__casting_a_centrepin

It's video no 3 on the right hand list. Called BC swing centre pin casting demo.

I might be being dim but I can't see how he's doing this. He seems to release the reel on the backswing but if that's the case surely he can't have power for the forward cast? Can someone explain it for me?

Thanks

 

[Paul Boote]

Fine if your paddling or wading in weed- / obstruction-free water, that "strip the line in, then sling it back out" cast featured in the video, but for use on many / even most of Britain's coarse-fishing waters...?

PS - Seconds after posting I had a Bernard Venables' Crabtree / Cherry cartoon flashback. Fishing with a centrepin for carp on a lake, the line being stripped from the pin then laid in coils on a sheet of brown parcel paper placed on the ground, the parboiled potato or paste ball hookbait then being swung out.

Oh, the tangle potential....

 

[trotter2]

I m8 to do the swing cast you need a lot of weight on the end, The type of floats they use over the pond for steel head fishing are big and take a heavy shot load, you wont be able to do that with a 4 no 4 stick float. Loop casts or wallis casts are fine. If the loop cast is all you can manage don't worry about it for light float fishing at close range its all you need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzo4yew_jA
The drop cast like said very tangle prone.

The wallis has the edge because of increased distances, simplicity (once mastered), and speed.

 

[mick b]

Your right about some people who want to mystify the Wallis Cast.
Some even want to charge you money for allowing them to teach you how to do it.

My advice is to take your rod to a bit of land where your standing slightly higher than where you wish to cast, this way you will mimic the bank fishing scenario.

Clean the centrepin and lubricate with 3:1 or similar oil, just a few drops is enough.
Next ensure the line is free to run off the reel, that the reel drag (small knurled disc on one of the centre spokes) is freed right off and your loaded with a weight equivalent to 3-4 SSG shot.


Hold the rod behind the reel, fingers across the back, thumb on the spool edge, weight hanging around the reel area.

To cast
Swing the weight into your body on the side opposite the reel or slightly out to the side opposite to your rod arm.....with your other hand briskly pull off a metre or so of line off the reel at the same time as you swing the weight forward lifting the rod tip towards the area you want to hit and as you feel a gentle pull on the rod tip (as the weight loads the rod) release your thumb off the spool completely.
As the weight nears the target area drop the rod tip and lay your thumb on the spool edge.
You control the presentation of your end tackle by moving the rod tip upstream just as the tackle is about to land, this lets the hookbait and float lay correctly on the water before it sinks.
The only complicated bit is in co-ordinating your thumb release with the pull of the line hand and forward swing of the tackle.

The real beauty of the 'Wallis' (if that is what is what I am describing) is that you are immediately in control of your tackle because the line is completely straight out from the rod tip to the float.

If the line overruns, your fingers across the back of the reel stop it from going into an unholy mess and make it far easier to sort out.

A half decent reel will suffice and I prefer one without a line guard, I have also found a rod with a more through action made me cast (slightly) better!

Im no 'master caster' but the above action works for me with my 3-4gm floats and certainly adds extra pleasure to my fishing when things go exactly right.
The real experts can lay a 3BB sticks alongside and within inches of a reedbed 15metres across a river time and time again....amazing skill indeed.


Where are you based BTW.
......

The video link didn't work so I searched on the 'tube and watched the same guy hand his rod to someone else in-order to land a 5lb fish by hand-lining it to the bank mg:

 

[Alan Tyler]

One important thing with the "strip in, sling out" type of cast is that line stripped in will coil so that it pays out from the top when cast, and shouldn't tangle. Much. In theory.
However, the first cast of the day of the "coils on paper" variety, when the line is stripped off the reel, will be the wrong way up, so the first coils off up towards the rod will be at the bottom of the coil - a tangle every time. You must peel the line from the reel onto one side of the open newspaper, then fold the paper closed, then turn it over and open it again, whereupon the pile will be cast-friendly (-ish) again.
Or use a fixed spool.
Even the one-loop-per-finger style of multi-loop casting can go severely bvggervp (Latin!) if you don't think about the sequence in which they are to be released... I have been that pillock.

 

[aebitim]

There is another way, and I will try and explain.
The rolling pin turns 90 degrees so the line comes off like a fixed spool.
This can be mimicked by letting the line run over your finger held at 90 degrees to the spool of the pin.
To get the idea lay the pin flat on the floor and pull some line off vertically.

Possible line twist issues with constant casting though.

 

[tigger]

Now this gentleman can wallise cast, he polished up my cast...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xct4t5KI6VQ

 

[nicepix]

Pulling line through the rings is an easy way of getting started with a centrepin but it also leads to tangles with bank side vegetation if you have too much line out.

The swing cast is not really suitable for light floats.

I use a variation of the Wallis Cast that doesn't involve holding the bait or weights over your finger. I swing the rod back and then swing it forward so the float, weights and hook go past my left side a couple of feet from me. If you are struggling with over runs and you have a reel with a drag such as a Match Aerial or Trudex, tighten up the drag so that it just allows the float to drop a few inches when you wiggle the rod tip. This is how they set multipliers up and it helps to prevent over runs. Once you are more competent you can ease the drag off and use your thumb more.

 

[mick b]

The swing cast is not really suitable for light floats.

This is not correct, I have watched the 'Gentlemen of the Itchen' swing cast all day with 1BB float rigs using a suitable rod and reel.
Admittedly the reels are often of a high quality and the rods ideally suited to light float fishing but it can be acheived as a walk along Riverside Park will clearly demonstrate.

Ive watched dozens of people use the Wallis Cast and have yet to see a single one hold the bait or weight in their hand prior to casting
So perhaps the 'swing cast' is a far better name for it?

 

[wooster]

Interesting comments thanks. Can anyone explain to me how the guy in the video is actually executing his cast? I can't really tell what he's doing in the back swing. He seems to be releasing the reel at that point. Surely that can't be right?

 

[nicepix]

Interesting comments thanks. Can anyone explain to me how the guy in the video is actually executing his cast? I can't really tell what he's doing in the back swing. He seems to be releasing the reel at that point. Surely that can't be right?

The swing cast that the Americans use for steelhead is a bit like fly casting. They swing the bait / lure back and allow it to pull line off the reel. You need a fairly heavy bait or lure to do this. Then, then forward cast begins using the energy built up in the back cast to propel the bait / lure forward.

Way back Sheffield anglers used a similar method to cast lightly shotted floats across the Witham and other drains. They would cast the float and tackle forwards and backwards like a fly caster and on each stroke allow a bit more line out. The would pull the line from the reel and release it at the appropriate moment just like a flay angler does.

The Wallis cast is defined here: The idiots guide to Wallis Casting

I would think that the 'Gentlemen of the Itchin' are using the same variation of this cast as I am, i.e. allowing the weight to swing free and not be released by the reel hand as described in the link, and not the swing cast as shown in the video.

 

[mick b]

Hi nicepix,
I couldn't open the video link so cannot refer to it.

Our Itchen guys just swing the float from the side and use the lift of the rod to develop the power into the cast, at the same time pulling and releasing the line off the reel.

I could not get the hang of it until I changed from a tip action rod (Daiwa Spectron) to a through action (Marksman) rod and released all the drag off my reel as they advised me, after that I was off and the float 'a running' and Ive never looked back

I just wish some of the old guys used a PC then perhaps we could all get the benefit of their expertise.
It was even suggested they gave a demonstration at the next Tackle Fair in Romsey but they seem to modest to agree to the idea.
Perhaps I will make a small video of them one day, just for posterity.

.

 

[Paul Boote]

It was a short, written piece by Chris Lythe the reelmaker, Mick.

I'd be happy to do a Wallis Cast demo, as I once did when someone begged me to at a NASA conference in Reading in the mid 1980s and got taken aside by Peter Drennan afterwards (one word - "Brilliant"), but you know what a fan club I have among the hard of fishing these days....

 

[tigger]

The main part of the cast is the pulling of the line...Alan Roe told me that and he's absolutly right. There's no need for any back cast when wallise casting, that's why you can cast directly out infront of yourself as well as from any side or over your head.

If you watch Alan in the vid he releases the line and in the next instant he pulls on the line and casts forward. There is also no tension on the rod tip when wallise casting properly.

It's a cast that is very hard to explaine in words but if anyone would like to see the cast done as it should be they only need to get to the Prince Albert open day to see Alan doing his demmo. Infact he does a few demo's at country shows throughout the year.

ALAN....ALAN...where are you ?

 

[nicepix]

Hi nicepix,
I couldn't open the video link so cannot refer to it.

Our Itchen guys just swing the float from the side and use the lift of the rod to develop the power into the cast, at the same time pulling and releasing the line off the reel.

I could not get the hang of it until I changed from a tip action rod (Daiwa Spectron) to a through action (Marksman) rod and released all the drag off my reel as they advised me, after that I was off and the float 'a running' and Ive never looked back

I just wish some of the old guys used a PC then perhaps we could all get the benefit of their expertise.
It was even suggested they gave a demonstration at the next Tackle Fair in Romsey but they seem to modest to agree to the idea.
Perhaps I will make a small video of them one day, just for posterity.

.

So they are not Wallis Casting, nor are they Swing Casting. They are doing exactly what I described as a variation of the Wallis Cast, or Pull Cast as the Yanks call it.

 

[trotter2]

The swing cast works great with a swim feeder.. Lol.

 

[wooster]

So just to be clear. The guy in the video is simply releasing some line on the back cast but then is braking the reel on the forward cast before releasing it again?

 

[nicepix]

So just to be clear. The guy in the video is simply releasing some line on the back cast but then is braking the reel on the forward cast before releasing it again?

Yes. He's allowing more line out on the back cast, stopping the reel, commencing the forward cast, then releasing the reel to allow line out.

 

[mick b]

Paul,
For the sake of clarity could you please provide a clear description of your Wallis Casting method, and if possible if there is any difference between the Wallis and the Swing, Pull or Whatever methods desciribed in this thread.

As an acknowledged master of this cast (if Mr Drennan says your good thats good enough for most members Im certain) your views on rod action and reel tuning would also be of considerable assistance to us tyros.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Paul Boote]

Always, always, always, K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and don't get all sanctimonious ("I am Great, you are not worthy.") about the ruddy thing.

The Wallis Cast what it is and whatever you make of it, whether you hold the shot above the hookbait, the bend of the hook, or the leger weight above the hookbait in your "line-stripping to set the reel spinning, non-rod-holding hand, or whether you "air cast" your unheld tackle with a side swing (gentle or full-blooded), an underhand flick or even an underhand then overhead pendulum roll cast (a sight to behold).

The Pull (set the reel spinning with a pull on the reel then flick the tackle out) cast is highly effective and a "quickie" that I use often / mostly use when float fishing and am not needing to throw a distance.

As for a description ... it's like riding a bike - once you've got it, you've got, after some crashes, scrapes and bloodied knees ... I wrote an article about it for Angling Magazine in 1978 or '79 which was considered pretty good by others but nearly killed me writing it, as describing the Cast in words precisely and clearly isn't easy, with the thing being best seen "live" just once for a time, leaving you having to go away and practice until you get the thing right. So I can't bear to try and describe it to you now - I might develop a nasty twitch or start muttering to myself in public or something!

Either way, see it done then do the work on it yourself. And don't get all holier-than-thou, I am the anointed / Special One, precious about it once you have. K.I.S.S.