Graham Marsden
Editor Emeritus
This is a dedicated thread for discussing article: Opinion Piece - Either or Neither?
Opinion Piece - Either or Neither?
- Thread starter Graham Marsden
- Start date
Stealph Viper
Well-known member
You can join the AA or the RAC or Green Flag, but they will only fix your car for you at the roadside or bring your car home for you etc, they will not represent you in court etc if you are involved in an accident etc
The AT will represent Angling as a whole, and not just one specific part of Angling at the highest levels and hopefully improve the fishing environment for everyone.
You can still join any other organisations you wish too, if that is the specific type of angling that you wish to do.
If government want to pass a law on Fishing that not only affects your organisation or type of fishing, who will lobby parliament to prevent it 1000 anglers of one organisation or 10's of thousands of unified anglers from one organisation.
Why was the Rod License introduced ?
The AT will represent Angling as a whole, and not just one specific part of Angling at the highest levels and hopefully improve the fishing environment for everyone.
You can still join any other organisations you wish too, if that is the specific type of angling that you wish to do.
If government want to pass a law on Fishing that not only affects your organisation or type of fishing, who will lobby parliament to prevent it 1000 anglers of one organisation or 10's of thousands of unified anglers from one organisation.
Why was the Rod License introduced ?
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Too right SV, anglers can't expect to be able to defend any impositions on the right to enjoy our sport unless we have the backup of serious numbers.
What surprises me more than anything, is the heads in the sand of some angling representatives who fail to see this and only ask..What's in it for ME
Good points by Kevin though on the Licence, one day perhaps we will be strong enough to ask why!
What surprises me more than anything, is the heads in the sand of some angling representatives who fail to see this and only ask..What's in it for ME
Good points by Kevin though on the Licence, one day perhaps we will be strong enough to ask why!
Paul H
Well-known member
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I too agree with the rod licence question but I still feel we need a single large representative body for angling.
To steal Kevin's park and ball analogies; if 'The Ball Trust' did exist then maybe they could challenge parks who arbitrarily put up 'No Ball Games' signs.
As Fred suggests - the AT would be the organisation to challenge the validity of the rod licence.
To steal Kevin's park and ball analogies; if 'The Ball Trust' did exist then maybe they could challenge parks who arbitrarily put up 'No Ball Games' signs.
As Fred suggests - the AT would be the organisation to challenge the validity of the rod licence.
Greg Whitehead
Well-known member
The licence is an unfair tax. It provides us with no representation whatsoever. At present the Angling Trust's main competition is the EA fishery department. While people are taxed to fish they will never pay a similar amount of money to a single governing body....
Kevin Perkins
Well-known member
Was entirely the point I was trying to get to Greg. If the EA is the body we have to pay (although God knows why) then they should be dancing to our tune. Surely the arguement that anglers should be vigorously pursuing is for either much greater representation of our interests by the EA or we should pull out and get behind the AT, but not both
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Wholeheartedly agree with your piece, Kevin, right down to halfway through the 4th from last paragraph. There, I think it went a bit wonky.
I'm sure Fred would agree, you can also join the Barbel Society, if you wish, and gain soem different advantages again to the rod licence and membership of AT. The BS are there to promote the stocking and wellbeing of barbel, not much else (if I am right, Fred?) You could also join PAC if you were a serious pike angler (there's a laugh
) or the Chub Study Group or Tench Fishers, all different, but none offering what the AT do.
As had been said, maybe one day, AT will question on our behalf why we have to buy a rod licence. They may also ask why doesn't the EA Recreation Department recognise angling as a recreational activity? The EA is far from perfect and the only point I can make in their favour is that at least all of our money for rod licences goes back into the Fisheries Department and we do get a benefit from it. At least, I can see that we do, but whether it's the best value for money is a mute point.
Now Road Fund Licence, pick on that one if you will! Where the hell does that money go? MP's expenses?
On a personal note, I can see we'll have to drag you kicking and screaming into the AT after all. Crikey the other week we were saving you £4 and then you wanted a further £6 discount. Would you like me to stump up the £20 for you, is that it? :wh
Just seen your latest post and - why do people who pay taxes like you and I choose to send their kids to rivate schools? Why do people who pay NI contributions also choose to pay to a private medical insurance? Why do people who already have jobs and pay taxes and NIs also join a union. Why, oh why?
I'm sure Fred would agree, you can also join the Barbel Society, if you wish, and gain soem different advantages again to the rod licence and membership of AT. The BS are there to promote the stocking and wellbeing of barbel, not much else (if I am right, Fred?) You could also join PAC if you were a serious pike angler (there's a laugh
) or the Chub Study Group or Tench Fishers, all different, but none offering what the AT do.As had been said, maybe one day, AT will question on our behalf why we have to buy a rod licence. They may also ask why doesn't the EA Recreation Department recognise angling as a recreational activity? The EA is far from perfect and the only point I can make in their favour is that at least all of our money for rod licences goes back into the Fisheries Department and we do get a benefit from it. At least, I can see that we do, but whether it's the best value for money is a mute point.
Now Road Fund Licence, pick on that one if you will! Where the hell does that money go? MP's expenses?
On a personal note, I can see we'll have to drag you kicking and screaming into the AT after all. Crikey the other week we were saving you £4 and then you wanted a further £6 discount. Would you like me to stump up the £20 for you, is that it? :wh
Just seen your latest post and - why do people who pay taxes like you and I choose to send their kids to rivate schools? Why do people who pay NI contributions also choose to pay to a private medical insurance? Why do people who already have jobs and pay taxes and NIs also join a union. Why, oh why?
Kevin Perkins
Well-known member
On a personal note, I can see we'll have to drag you kicking and screaming into the AT after all. Crikey the other week we were saving you £4 and then you wanted a further £6 discount. Would you like me to stump up the £20 for you, is that it? :wh
Jeff
You know I could never take money off you, but if all the members on FM were to send me just £1 each, I promise I will take out a lifetime subscription to the AT............
PS
That's registered members, not just the active ones.......!!!!
Jeff
Not everyone who pays taxes pays to send their kids to private schools, not everyone joins BUPA (other private healthcare schemes are available) They do so by CHOICE, and I would suspect they are in about the same minority (% wise) of anglers who have or will join AT..........
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So, what 'taxes' are fair then? None!
I really don't see this argument, regarding one or the other, nor do I see (or hear) of anglers not paying up for the Angling Trust because they are paying for an EA license.
Simple analysis is that we (all of us anglers) are quite happy to buy our annual EA license, cough up 'loads-a-dosh' for our club memberships, spend goodness knows how many hundreds or thousands of pounds on tackle, bait and the odd day tickets every year.
So, methinks if one is looking for a reason why the AT has not been as successful as was hoped, albeit at this early stage, then other directions need to be investigated.
We never used to get this 'disaffection' with the EA when we bought regional licenses, did we? No, and in those days it would cost us more (in real terms in today's money) than it costs today, especially if like me you had to buy 2 or 3 different licenses per year.
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Depends Jeff, what you mean by "not much else"?
Kevin, you keep asking why you have to buy a rod licence, and yet when people (such as myself on another thread) give you the reason, you ignore it, and continue to play all kinds of tunes that all lead to money being handed over to the AT.
I think I understand where you are coming from. The AT needs more funds. The EA has money.. lets have some of that. But let's be quite clear about what you get for your cash.
We buy our rod licences because we exploit fish. It is a regulatory requirement, as dictated by the Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Act. It is not a government stealth tax. The treasury doesnt see any of the money. The EA is the regulatory authority, they are regulating our rods, and how we use them to exploit fish. They use all the money to regulate fisheries and improve them.
The rod licence does not buy you representation. To quote myself my reply to you on another thread..
If you want representation in industry, you join the union. If you want representation in sport, you join your governing body. So if you want representation in angling, join the AT. The rod licence has nothing to do with it.
I think I understand where you are coming from. The AT needs more funds. The EA has money.. lets have some of that. But let's be quite clear about what you get for your cash.
We buy our rod licences because we exploit fish. It is a regulatory requirement, as dictated by the Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Act. It is not a government stealth tax. The treasury doesnt see any of the money. The EA is the regulatory authority, they are regulating our rods, and how we use them to exploit fish. They use all the money to regulate fisheries and improve them.
The rod licence does not buy you representation. To quote myself my reply to you on another thread..
If you want representation in industry, you join the union. If you want representation in sport, you join your governing body. So if you want representation in angling, join the AT. The rod licence has nothing to do with it.
Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)
Senior Member
And the canoeists exploit the rivers and pay sweet FA!
Nah, that's a poor argument Mr. C-C. What are they exploiting?
They dont exploit anything. They quite possibly trespass, but not exploit. Anglers are quite capable of trespass too. Shame that landowners are savvy about charging for sporting rights and not access rights too.
They dont exploit anything. They quite possibly trespass, but not exploit. Anglers are quite capable of trespass too. Shame that landowners are savvy about charging for sporting rights and not access rights too.
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Lord Paul of Sheffield
Well-known member
James
How do anglers exploit fish?
How do anglers exploit fish?
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Don't want to drag the BS into this really Fred so apolgies if they do so much more now. It was just an examle of something else to pay to that isn't necessary (pardon that too) but that some people want to do because they feel they support those aims.
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Kevin, you may well be right about those percentages, but for anglers there is more at stake than giving your kids a good education. Fishing is far more imprtant than that.
One way or the other, even looking at your original idea (£50 tax then pay the EA bits etc.) you're still paying for AT and the EA. Both need a certain amount to operate on and at the moment, the EA wants £26 p.a. and the AT wants £20 p.a. One you must join like the road fund licence, and the other is optional like the AA.
Go figure.
It's ok Jeff, I just wanted to make sure what to answer.
I think it's fair to say, a great deal of what Pete Reading looks after is more than just Barbel.
We are using the R&C funds by paying/ sharing costs for improvements to rivers in association with clubs and the EA.
Pete has a very good relationships with the EA when it comes to improvements, in particular to bankside vegetation,fry safety zones and general tidying up of long defunct side streams and shallows etc.
Of course restocking of barbel comes into it, but not just for the sake of it, improvements to the river and spawning grounds for all fish are a fair part of the works. Pete sows the seeds with the EA and we are open to shared partnerships with clubs whose river need a helping hand.
We have another fund raising auction coming up in November, so there are and will be more funds available.
If clubs have particular problems Pete is always available for guidance.
I think it's fair to say, a great deal of what Pete Reading looks after is more than just Barbel.
We are using the R&C funds by paying/ sharing costs for improvements to rivers in association with clubs and the EA.
Pete has a very good relationships with the EA when it comes to improvements, in particular to bankside vegetation,fry safety zones and general tidying up of long defunct side streams and shallows etc.
Of course restocking of barbel comes into it, but not just for the sake of it, improvements to the river and spawning grounds for all fish are a fair part of the works. Pete sows the seeds with the EA and we are open to shared partnerships with clubs whose river need a helping hand.
We have another fund raising auction coming up in November, so there are and will be more funds available.
If clubs have particular problems Pete is always available for guidance.
Steve Spiller
Well-known member
Come on! The E.A do naff all for us, it's just another tax that we the anglers have to pay and have accepted for donkey's years!
The A.T which I have recently joined (head out of the sand) should get the income from our rod licences, that way it would be put to good use in our favour. At the moment the licence revenue gets swallowed up into the gargantuan pot of the E.A. and only a pittance of it goes back into angling.
It stinks! Give it to the A.T.!
Yeah right! No chance! 'They' the E.A. aint gonna give up that little earner without a huge fight! Cos we're the only mugs willing to cough up something for nothing!!!
James, have you got a vested interest in the E.A?
---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------
I'm angry now!
What do the E.A do for angling/anglers???
I pay for a licence that allows me to fish, but where does it go and what do they do with it???
Do they prosecute polluters? Do they catch and prosecute poachers? What do they do with my money???
The A.T which I have recently joined (head out of the sand) should get the income from our rod licences, that way it would be put to good use in our favour. At the moment the licence revenue gets swallowed up into the gargantuan pot of the E.A. and only a pittance of it goes back into angling.
It stinks! Give it to the A.T.!
Yeah right! No chance! 'They' the E.A. aint gonna give up that little earner without a huge fight! Cos we're the only mugs willing to cough up something for nothing!!!
James, have you got a vested interest in the E.A?
---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------
I'm angry now!
What do the E.A do for angling/anglers???
I pay for a licence that allows me to fish, but where does it go and what do they do with it???
Do they prosecute polluters? Do they catch and prosecute poachers? What do they do with my money???
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
This shows how little you know Steve, because you'd never get involved other than enjoying the fruits of everyone else's labours. True?
From where I stand, I get good value out of them, more would be welcome of course.
As I've already said, I concur, but it's law.
---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------
Yes, yes, and 'give it to me'.
Sorry Steve ,over the years both as an ordinary pub club with waters and now the Barbel Society, I've seen the work that the EA put in first hand.
Part of the EA works for angling,it just needs a little steering in the right direction some of the time.
Part of the EA works for angling,it just needs a little steering in the right direction some of the time.
You're wrong Steve. I think there are rules that mean that the rod licence money is only spent on Fisheries work. It cant be spent on flood defence, air pollution or any of the other stuff the EA does.
Absolutely. Dont we all? I hand over my hard-earned money and buy a rod licence every year. So, I make sure I know what I am getting for my money. Dont think for one minute that I am satisfied with it either, but at least I take the time to find out what I am paying for and understand it. To me mate, you are sounding just a little bit "but what have the romans ever done for us?!"
I am also a member of the Angling Trust, and I know what I get for that too. For what it's worth, I am also in the S&TA, because I dont think that the AT will spend too much time lobbying to protect my trout fishing interests. On top of all that, I pay to be a member of 3 different fishing clubs, so my annual 'fishing bill' is well into the hundreds of pounds. And you know what?.. for the enjoyment I get from it, it is worth every single penny.
I've posted on here because sometimes I think we need a little perpsective, not cruising for an argument. The costs to just go fishing are still relatively very cheap. I mean, have you been to a football match lately? and look what golfers pay for green fees. They'd laugh you out of the pub moaning about handing over a few £20 notes to go fishing all year. Any other country sports cost a hell of a lot more. I dont think we've got it bad.