Anglers and the Environment

[dorsetsteve]

This is the problem with discussions of intelligence, by its very basis itself it’s an anthropological experience, we can’t help it. This Disney world vision where all the animals have a little chat is a figment of the imagination. Virtually all animals do not think much beyond food, safety and reproduction. There’s no Redmire Carp Rotary Club.

 

[nottskev]

This is the problem with discussions of intelligence, by its very basis itself it’s an anthropological experience, we can’t help it. This Disney world vision where all the animals have a little chat is a figment of the imagination. Virtually all animals do not think much beyond food, safety and reproduction. There’s no Redmire Carp Rotary Club.

What is the problem? I think you mean "anthropomorphic" - projecting human characteristics onto animals. The scientific study of their capabilities is the exact opposite, and is carried out by open-minded people who examine what they can do, as distinct from armchair pundits pronouncing what they think they can do.

 

[dorsetsteve]

What is the problem? I think you mean "anthropomorphic" - projecting human characteristics onto animals. The scientific study of their capabilities is the exact opposite, and is carried out by open-minded people who examine what they can do, as distinct from armchair pundits pronouncing what they think they can do.

That is indeed exactly what I mean. I do get my worms upside down now and again.

 

[Keith M]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...ver_antiangling_report&utm_content=2021-03-11

Keith

 

[nottskev]

That is indeed exactly what I mean. I do get my worms upside down now and again.

Why does that remind me of a Ronnie Barker gag?

 

[Philip]

Any discussion about whether fish feel pain always descends into a word definition game around the word «pain ».

To me its all moot anyway. There is no way anyone in the non angling public is going to buy that what we do to fish is good regardless of any tests or scientific papers we want to stick in front of them.

This is why anglers need to have an alternative argument lined up and imo the best argument to justify our pastime is that anglers are the greater good.

Fish benefit from anglers; take us away and fish in general are worse off.

 

[108831]

Barbel dont have the same mouths as chub,but do it in a different way,they lift their heads off the bottom letting the flow catch them,lifting them away,rod goes round,mouth opens as resistance builds,jobs a goodun,barbel havent got the right shape mouth to take surface baits,but they do...

 

[Keith M]

,barbel havent got the right shape mouth to take surface baits,but they do...

I’ve experienced Barbel turning upside down and sucking the undersides of streamer weed on the surface at night on the river Kennet back in the days when there was loads of streamer weed on the Kennet. Some nights it was like being next to a pig farm, with Barbel snorting and grunting all along the river. It wasn’t a common occurance so we just assumed it was a night when there was an insect hatch occuring or something along those lines.

Keith

 

[Philip]

Barbel dont have the same mouths as chub,but do it in a different way,they lift their heads off the bottom letting the flow catch them,lifting them away,rod goes round,mouth opens as resistance builds,jobs a goodun,barbel havent got the right shape mouth to take surface baits,but they do...

Not sure thats really the same as a Chub picking up a bait on the edge of its lips swimming to a different side of the swim and then swallowing it......that strikes me as being similar to a Carp that takes a baited hook & moves off a feeding patch and as the hooklink pulls tight the hook is dragged from the mouth without pricking it which is very well documented.

.I dont see that as a consequance of a particularly clued up Carp, or to put it another way I would not see that as anything like as intelligent as a fish spinning on the spot to rid itself of a hook....To me thats two very different things.

Then again perhaps the Barbel have learnt to open their mouths at the first sign of resistance to try and drop the hooks. I have my doubts but we just dont know for sure so we are all ultimatly guessing, which is probably good as if we knew all the anwsers it would get boring.

As for Barbel taking surface baits...yes I think its well documented & even Peter Stone I think it was wrote about them flipping over on their backs to take float fished minnows on the Thames years back.

 

[108831]

Its the the only way they can achieve the same result due to their restrictive mouth position,the whole reason for doing it is to test for resistance to avoid hooking,smart,maybe not,learning a safeguarding measure,definitely,and the next time they are hooked using that method,they will update it,shows some skill...

 

[108831]

I’ve experienced Barbel turning upside down and sucking the undersides of streamer weed on the surface at night on the river Kennet back in the days when there was loads of streamer weed on the Kennet. Some nights it was like being next to a pig farm, with Barbel snorting and grunting all along the river. It wasn’t a common occurance so we just assumed it was a night when there was an insect hatch occuring or something along those lines.

Keith

Ive caught barbel on floating crust whilst fishing for chub,once on the Severn,the other on the Lea just downstream of Hatfield,this was running the crust through at the end of shallows,on the Severn I think if I remembee rightly I caught 8,actually more than the amount of chub I had...ive heard barbel slurping as you describe on the Royalty,taking lumps of meat lying on top of solid streamer beds...

 

[steve2]

This is the problem with discussions of intelligence, by its very basis itself it’s an anthropological experience, we can’t help it. This Disney world vision where all the animals have a little chat is a figment of the imagination. Virtually all animals do not think much beyond food, safety and reproduction. There’s no Redmire Carp Rotary Club.

Some people watch Disney and believe it to be true to life. There I was thinking all Beatrix Potter books were all true stories.

 

[dorsetsteve]

Some people watch Disney and believe it to be true to life. There I was thinking all Beatrix Potter books were all true stories.

They do say that she was as mad a wasp in a jam jar, so to her it probably was…

 

[nottskev]

Short article today about rivers, pollution and the public

Pollution is damaging UK rivers more than public thinks, report says

Survey finds 43% of people saying waterways are in good condition despite threats in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

www.theguardian.com

 

[The bad one]

They do say that she was as mad a wasp in a jam jar, so to her it probably was…

Rather a pertinent comment this one, as one of the lead authors a woman can’t remember her name) that brought about the Rose review and paper used Bee Venom to show fish felt pain in their mouth. Why? As it was put to me by an eminent fish biologist.