Anglers and the Environment

[theartist]

Thinking more about my potato comparison is there a non native food source imported to the UK that has been as successful for our wildlife as Carp and Tench have?

Think about it...

How many ponds, lake complexes and fishieries have been made in empty fields that would be arable farmland or housing. They all start out as muddy holes but quickly mature, with trees, bushes, rushes etc, I don't fish many but the ponds my club have dug over the years are absolute nature fests, some are an oasis in urban areas, yes carp can stir things up but when stocked sensibly other fish can thrive too as does an abundance of wildlife.

Instead of negativity over carp and commies often citing the worst case scenario should we laud them as positive for the environment?

 

[mikench]

Mirror mirror on the wall why am I so common and is it crucian?

 

[no-one in particular]

I think commies have been good for the environment if not for fishing in some anglers eyes. Many start out as non descript mud holes but the smart ones invested any money they made and made them more attractive and made more money as they attracted more anglers and the wildlife came with it. One I know the bird watching became so good they started charging bird watchers to visit.
As to carp and tench, they have been around all my life and around in many of the old angling books I read so, to me they are native. Its back to that argument again, when is an animal native and when is it not native, how long does it take.

 

[theartist]

Imagine if many of the commercials also set aside areas of nature or were encouraged to do so, most commies have spare space which they spend time and money mowing which could be planted with natural wild flowers. If an angling body got behind this giving free seed packs not only would it make each fishery easier on the eye, if would need less maintenance and also be a base for wild insects like bees, butterflies and birds. Thus improving angling's image in the public eye in relation to conservation and nature. No brainer.

 

[bullet]

Thinking more about my potato comparison is there a non native food source imported to the UK that has been as successful for our wildlife as Carp and Tench have?

Think about it...

How many ponds, lake complexes and fishieries have been made in empty fields that would be arable farmland or housing. They all start out as muddy holes but quickly mature, with trees, bushes, rushes etc, I don't fish many but the ponds my club have dug over the years are absolute nature fests, some are an oasis in urban areas, yes carp can stir things up but when stocked sensibly other fish can thrive too as does an abundance of wildlife.

Instead of negativity over carp and commies often citing the worst case scenario should we laud them as positive for the environment?

Good point.

I was recently told that that a local new housing estate with hedges, gardens and green spaces was about 10 times more Ecologically diverse than the intensive Arable field that it was built on.

 

[ian g]

Commies maybe havens of wildlife,not sure they for the thousands of ponds lost since I was a kid

 

[theartist]

Most ponds lost have dried up and or been built on, whilst you can't undo that there's no harm in making new ones that's for sure

 

[ian g]

You’re right ,I suppose we are where we are. Shame looking after the environment has been fashionable for longer with the general public

 

[no-one in particular]

Its not only anglers that create havens (or those that want to exploit them), I knew a group of blokes who got hold of an area of wasted coal pit land and turned it into a lake for duck shooting, they limited themselves to the amount of ducks they shot but turned it into something beautiful and full of nature from a black hole. I like commies for lots of reasons, one being the beautiful places they often become, the nature they often create and dare I say it, the fishing as well. I catch fish and I like catching fish, they don't come with a certificate of authenticity stapled to their fins...

 

[dorsetsteve]

Moan.
Angling should encourage people to immerse themselves into nature and be part of that slower pace that enables you to see the natural world. The vast, vast majority of guys I meet on the bank love fish and love the outdoors. I should point out that I pretty much exclusively fish rivers.

Barbel are a native British fish, ok only to East flowing rivers but that’s really splitting hairs. They are also a key indicator species like Trout so falling (crashing) populations are a good tell tale that there’s something a miss and we know for a fact our rivers are getting abused and polluted, fish numbers are simply an symptom.

Carp, like them or loathe them and a good portion of FM posters seem to loathe them, are about as native as much else in that they arent but they’ve been here since before England was even a country.

If you don’t feel angling is putting enough back then do something about it because there’s plenty that could be done.

 

[108831]

Carp are lovely fish,and ive had many great days fishing for them but they are everywhere now,very few venues dont have them,several venues that were great crucian,bream and tench club lakes are now syndicated carp waters,hey-ho...

 

[no-one in particular]

Carp are lovely fish,and ive had many great days fishing for them but they are everywhere now,very few venues dont have them,several venues that were great crucian,bream and tench club lakes are now syndicated carp waters,hey-ho...

Funny reading this, my friends and I found a lovely fishery about 20 years ago, it was a fly fishing place but little known and even less known was that it had a lovely coarse fishing lake tucked away down a steep path in the woods. It was never advertised and we only found out about it by word of mouth. I was just looking at the town nearby as I am thinking of moving there and I googles fishing in the area and it came up. It has got rid of the fly fishing which was excellent and turned all the pools into mainly carp and catfish lakes and a camping site. Such a shame. Nothing against carp or catfish or the anglers but still a shame. It was a rare place of individuality for fly fishing and those in the know for one very lovely coarse lake which had some great tench fishing.
The rate we are going there will be few places like this left. My guess it was the lure of the money, it seems the son has taking over from the father who I met a couple of times in the old fishing hut, (now all modernized) and he was an old fashioned sort of bloke who didn't advertise the place much and kept it special.

 

[peterjg]

Markg, I am sure that you are right. There must be lots of nice waters which have been "modernised" (ruined) with the introduction of yet more carp. Maybe the wheel will turn and good sense eventually prevail and there will be a return to the delights of fishing for roach, tench, crucian, etc - anything but carp.

 

[108831]

I think trout fisheries are much more work to run than a carp fishery plus stockings are much less regular....

 

[ian g]

Like Witty I have nothing against carp , I fish for bites mainly so enjoy catching anything . Carp are just fish but being a dominant species they seem to have had a detrimental effect on crucians over time .

 

[theartist]

Carp are only detrimental when overstocked, the fault lies not with the fish itself but those responsible for it's numbers

 

[Bluenose]

Carp are only detrimental when overstocked, the fault lies not with the fish itself but those responsible for it's numbers

Carp stocked in any numbers on some fisheries, is detrimental. For example, even if stocked in very small numbers, the hybridisation that occurs with crucians, means the gene pool is affected and altered forever.

I agree with the point about those responsible however. We have a mere locally in Cheshire that had many thousands of tench removed. Those tench had been in the mere for millennia I suspect, and yet the EA saw fit to grant Section 30s for their removal, to be replaced with carp. Carp that were (I believe) sourced from abroad. It's an example of 'sterilising' of 'carp waters' ie removal of nigh on all other species to reduce competition for the carp. This is another practice that makes me think, can we really call ourselves 'environmentalists'?

 

[no-one in particular]

Markg, I am sure that you are right. There must be lots of nice waters which have been "modernised" (ruined) with the introduction of yet more carp. Maybe the wheel will turn and good sense eventually prevail and there will be a return to the delights of fishing for roach, tench, crucian, etc - anything but carp.

I would have thought supply would have outstripped demand by now, maybe it will turn and some more enterprising businesses will suddenly realize there are still a lot of roach/tench etc. anglers out there.

 

[108831]

Carp are detrimental on many fisheries Rob,they force tench and bream out of your swims,you hook them on fisheries whilst fishing for lesser species with lighter gear,they also promote the Korda carp angler spodding for England or feeding kilos of boilies,I know Philip will say that bream and tench grow big on such bait,but numbers seem to decrease on many lakes and fish are all at spod range,then when you land twenty pound carp on roach gear some people sitting in bivvies say that we shouldnt be allowed to fish on such gear,I know these people are fools and most carp anglers arent fools,but many clubs are run by fools and that is how fisheries are lost...

 

[108831]

I would have thought supply would have outstripped demand by now, maybe it will turn and some more enterprising businesses will suddenly realize there are still a lot of roach/tench etc. anglers out there.

The trouble is tench dont feed all year round the same as carp tench become incredibly moody,so day ticket waters specialising in tench dont get that many visitors during winter...leaving the owner with little revenue...