Anglers and the Environment

[Badgerale]

Carp are only detrimental when overstocked, the fault lies not with the fish itself but those responsible for it's numbers

With regard to Tench I think this is true.

I go to a local club lake with a moderate number of big carp and a good head of tench and bream. They have resisted the urge to fill the place with carp to keep some anglers happy and the result is a much more balanced fishery with good pike and eels too.

Conversely, I've been to couple of older commies where they once had a 'Tench Lake' as an alternative to the main carp puddle. Over time they followed supply and demand and added more carp - now there isn't a Tench left alive in either of them. The bream seem to fair a little better, much to the annoyance of the carpers.

Unfortunately the carp in the club lake have successfully spawned recently and there are a lot of tiny ones showing up. Many seem to cheer this development, but I fear this marks the beginning of the end for the place as a mixed fishery and the start of a carp monoculture.

 

[nottskev]

The trouble is tench dont feed all year round the same as carp tench become incredibly moody,so day ticket waters specialising in tench dont get that many visitors during winter...leaving the owner with little revenue...

I've never found a fishery that held tench exclusively. I used to fish a local water I called the Old Lake in HYDYGO. It had great tench and crucian fishing through the warmer months, with excellent roach and perch in winter. Carp were included in the mix, no problem. It had plenty of regulars who adapted to the time of year.

Thanks to a new regime - higher prices, reduced open hours and large numbers of carp introduced - it's now a very different place. Initially it was a clear-water fishery with abundant soft weed, the tench were prolific (all the places prolific for small to medium tench I've known have been like that) and the roach and perch stunningly colourful and fit. It's now turbid and weed-free: when you put a load of carp in a water, they don't just compete etc with other fish, they transform the water. The tench are gone, and the roach are pallid, sad-looking things, light for their size. Crucians are a memory and I didn't see a big perch for the last year I fished there.

 

[108831]

I am more implying natural waters,where years ago you were lucky to see a carp now there are very few lakes without fifty carp in,we never hooked carp back then,in fact I remember my first the second was probably ten years after,Eaton Bray,Park Farm fisheries the original lake 'the moat'(it really was one) had tench,bream,roach,pike and perch,it is and always has been run by the French family,although day ticket,it wasnt like a commercial,in my time three generations have run it,in the last five years the lake has been repeatedly stocked with carp,not hundreds,but nothing else has gone in,it used to have a very good population of tench and bream,now you only catch bloody carp,as if there arent enough commercials around with modest sized carp...

 

[Badgerale]

This is the problem, from a fishery owners point of view carp are the perfect fish.

Hard to kill, resistant to poor water quality, feed well on any bait, will feed year round, fight hard, grow quickly, and grow very big -- and of course that people will pay a lot of money to fish for them.

Tench on the other hand are seasonal, finickity, grow slowly, and don't grow as big. And your unlikely to get a swarm of tench fishermen booking out every swim for 48hr fishing sessions.

If your a fishery owner, or even a fishing club, are you going to spend money stocking a natural fish that will take many years to grow and could die in the next heatwave, and won't even be very popular... or are you going to stock a carp.

 

[ian g]

Carp are a popular fish , no doubt but surely there must be a saturation point . In most commercial fisheries are basically the same formula ?

 

[sam vimes]

Most anglers are environmentalists in as much as they care about how to produce an environment that results in more and/or bigger fish. I've not managed (planting, trimming, fencing etc) bankside and water flora for the greater good, but I've happily done it with the intention of benefitting both fish and anglers. If a grebe, willow warbler, marsh harrier, little egret, hobby, dragonfly, vole or newt has benefitted (and they have), that's great, but I didn't do it for them.

The way that some anglers like to think that sitting by water for a few hours once in a while makes them all knowing outdoorsmen is highly amusing, especially when the waters they frequent are urban or distinctly unnatural. Sitting by the average commie once a week may be a lot better than never leaving your house, but it's hardly getting back to nature. I don't believe that there's much wrong with anglers often having a fairly narrow perspective, but it's a stretch to suggest that those that do are the environmental guardians they wish to paint themselves.

 

[nottskev]

It says a lot that we explain the (long word alert) ubiquity of carp with reference to the commodities in a business plan (the ideal commercial fish) and we wonder if some enterprising businessman will spot a tench (insert other fish) -shaped gap in the market and undertake a non-carp venture to test its financial viability. Both points testify to how thoroughly we have become used to seeing fishermen and fishing lakes as customers in private, fenced off zones, stocked from fish farms. I've spent most of my fishing life fishing for whatever happened to be in rivers, canals, ponds, reservoirs, estate lakes, drains, streams, mill dams etc etc via history, happenstance and all kinds of deliberate or accidental stockings. I persist in thinking there should be fish, all kinds of fish, out there in the world we live in, and I think it unhealthy in a number of ways to settle for essentially plastic replicas of fisheries, no matter how big the catches or how time softens the new-built outlines of these over-loaded swimming pools.

I've sampled all the commercials of note within 20 miles or so. I'm not to be convinced they are oases of biodiversity or places of beauty. They are all of the multi-pool model, some with shops and cafes, mostly closely pegged and well-worn, with soupy water and minimal features, and offer you the chance to fish for carp - bigger carp, smaller carp, lads and dads starter carp - on different shaped pools, with closing times as early, in summer, of 4pm. If people have some more interesting ones in their area, good luck to them. I like places where you can catch a few, but I'm about as attracted to fishing these as I am to eating in the food court of a retail park.

It would be nice to think the pendulum might start to swing back from the model where fishing is packaged as easy, accessible, instant and bland. I've noticed, since a fb group set up locally around a small and quite challenging river where fish aren't easy to come by, that the number of contributors, and particularly younger ones, is growing apace. There's a well-known commercial complex up the road, but more than you might expect think it's cool to get out looking for wild fish and new swims.

 

[The bad one]

Most anglers are environmentalists in as much as they care about how to produce an environment that results in more and/or bigger fish. I've not managed (planting, trimming, fencing etc) bankside and water flora for the greater good, but I've happily done it with the intention of benefitting both fish and anglers. If a grebe, willow warbler, marsh harrier, little egret, hobby, dragonfly, vole or newt has benefitted (and they have), that's great, but I didn't do it for them.

The way that some anglers like to think that sitting by water for a few hours once in a while makes them all knowing outdoorsmen is highly amusing, especially when the waters they frequent are urban or distinctly unnatural. Sitting by the average commie once a week may be a lot better than never leaving your house, but it's hardly getting back to nature. I don't believe that there's much wrong with anglers often having a fairly narrow perspective, but it's a stretch to suggest that those that do are the environmental guardians they wish to paint themselves.

Sadly Chris every word is true......Hell fire, there's some THICK anglers on committees and about on the bank!

A few points I've picked up on, 150 years for fish to become native! Sorry Peter that's an artificial figure created by the not fit for purpose EA to get them out of a hole over carp. For any flora and fauna to be classed as native ECOLOGICALLY, their roots have to be in post a 1000 years after the last Ice Age. Tench aren't native, Oh really? And where did you get that info from then.....reference please! Carp aren’t detrimental to waters where they are stocked. They are rooters, grubbers, benthic feeders and destroy weedbeds even when they are stocked in modest numbers. Resulting in the waters becoming turbid. Thankfully Natural England has recognised what they are, even if the EA can not and stopped them being stocked in all waters they have some control over (SSSIs) They also hybridise with Crucian carp, causing the loss of the genetic purity of the Crucian strain.

Sadly the once great mixed fisheries of Meres of the 3 counties have been ruined by the stocking of carp in them, Some as Eddie pointed out destocked of the native and natural fish going back to their creation after the Ice Age.

 

[Philip]

Carp !

Love them or hate them people will stock what brings the most money and a lot of people want to fish for Carp plus they are hardy, large and fast growing so good from a fishery stocking & management point of view too.

As with any species overstocking is not good but I don’t subscribe to the idea that Carp automatically equals the death of fishing for anything else. I would also imagine everyone has some quiet fishing available within easy striking distance of them were they are unlikely to catch many Carp at all in the form of rivers and canals.

Whats interesting is that over the last couple of years everyone appears to be going Crucian mad to the extent that they have almost replaced Roach on FM as the new iconic “must have” fish.

Nice as they are I would quickly grow very bored of fishing if I was limited to a little lily lined pond for a shy biting fish that rarely gets more than a couple of pounds and fights like a wet paper bag.

 

[mikench]

I like catching a variety of fish, big and small and it's a perfect day when( and I have frequently) I have caught 8 different species in succession . This range includes carp. Gudgeon and silver fish. Carp are very resilient though unlike other species. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

[108831]

I dont want carp destroyed,but it does seem every lake has to have them,and the vast majority that fish for carp dont sit behind buzzers,they cast out method feeders,pellet wagglers etc and want to catch 10/20/30/40/50 of the mug fish in commercials,then when they get fed up with paying day ticket prices they join a club and moan that they want lakes with loads of carp,most proper carp anglers want moderate stock levels with chances of big fish,how about leaving some water that has none,or virtually none,so we can fish without the constant bombardment that lasts from Friday to Sunday every week....

 

[Ray Roberts]

I dont want carp destroyed,but it does seem every lake has to have them,and the vast majority that fish for carp dont sit behind buzzers,they cast out method feeders,pellet wagglers etc and want to catch 10/20/30/40/50 of the mug fish in commercials,then when they get fed up with paying day ticket prices they join a club and moan that they want lakes with loads of carp,most proper carp anglers want moderate stock levels with chances of big fish,how about leaving some water that has none,or virtually none,so we can fish without the constant bombardment that lasts from Friday to Sunday every week....

I noticed that at the recent trip to Boddington with the exception of our group who were fishing for roach, every other angler except one was fishing for carp. All of the guys fishing the matches certainly were. The matches were both won with over 100lb which wouldn’t be feasible with the other species there. All of our guys were, I’m trying to put this delicately, over a certain age. The guys pleasure fishing on the side of the reservoir adjacent to the road, I would estimate around twenty of them, were with one exception fishing solely for carp. It’s a bit sad really but this seems to be the way the younger anglers generally prefer to fish.


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[steve2]

I'm not sure we would need a line with carp and tench for example, they were brought over for food over a thousand years before the potato, if whose who dislike carp want to see damage to the environment by a 'non native' go walk round a potato field then a carp lake and see which one has the most wildlife.

If you really want to see what caused the most damage to the environment look no further the the human race.

Carp are like cockroaches they will be here for ever they will survive a nuclear attack and take over the world.

 

[Philip]

Carp are like cockroaches they will be here for ever they will survive a nuclear attack and take over the world.

Absolutly ! Plus once that bomb crator fills with water they will have an instant new commie gravel pit to colonize.

 

[nottskev]

Carp !


Nice as they are I would quickly grow very bored of fishing if I was limited to a little lily lined pond for a shy biting fish that rarely gets more than a couple of pounds and fights like a wet paper bag.

Insulting crucians, you iconoclast, you

I can't imagine why anyone would be so limited - the waters with the trad mix of rudd, tench and crucians were always just part of angling variety.
But I'd prefer that some such remained out there as an option.
It's true I can fish on the canal or river and largely avoid carp, if I prefer.
But it's precisely the homogenising effect on stillwaters, where so many have been made so similar in stock, with similar gains and losses, that I think is regrettable.

 

[108831]

Not on my canals and rivers you cant...apart from those that have no fish left...

 

[108831]

I noticed that at the recent trip to Boddington with the exception of our group who were fishing for roach, every other angler except one was fishing for carp. All of the guys fishing the matches certainly were. The matches were both won with over 100lb which wouldn’t be feasible with the other species there. All of our guys were, I’m trying to put this delicately, over a certain age. The guys pleasure fishing on the side of the reservoir adjacent to the road, I would estimate around twenty of them, were with one exception fishing solely for carp. It’s a bit sad really but this seems to be the way the younger anglers generally prefer to fish.


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Boddington used to be a good tench and bream water before BW decided to mass stock their reserviours with loads of small carp,knowing that they would pack the weight on at the cost of the native stock,good business,shit decision imo...

 

[rayner]

Fishing a lily lined pond with silverfish that fight like a paper bag is only when the angler is using over gunned tackle.
Fish sensible and roach tench and crucians fight far more than a paper bag.

 

[108831]

I think that post was slightly tongue in cheek Gary,Philip likes roach fishing and crucians fight harder than those,lol.

 

[dorsetsteve]

In my opinion the most overrated fish for a fight, Pike. Sometimes you get a good one that is up for a scrap, some of them just sulk and kite in. Pound for pound even a Bream would give them a run for their money. In my opinion of corse.