Anglers and the Environment

108831

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I would not fish near snags,in fact by choice even on proper barbel gear I would not fish near them,at least say around 10m away....I fish for fun predominately,so if I risk leaving a size 18 in a barbel,that is unfortunate,that said not so unfortunate as the poor fish that have a size 4 hook in them that ive removed after landing them on an 18....
 
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108831

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Tigger catches plenty of barbel on the float,on 6lb sensor,still light,my issue is that on the venue in question,if I want to 'try' to catch the good roach,dace and fair chub on the venue my chances are vastly reduced,and barbel being barbel,they gatecrash the party,so im going to hook them,like it or not...
 

rayner

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One way of keeping fish out of snags is to pull the fish toward any snag if there is an opportunity to do so.
 

108831

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The sort of snags im thinking of Gary,the fish live in them,so as soon as you hook em they are on their way home,sunken,or fallen trees etc...
 

Keith M

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One way of keeping fish out of snags is to pull the fish toward any snag if there is an opportunity to do so.
I’ve also found this a good ploy on occasion when it’s possible; especially with fish like Carp and Tench; however on the small stream-like river that Whitty and several others of us occasionally fish; the Barbel are usually half way down or further up the swim before we’ve even pulled into them, so trying to exert pressure towards any snags is virtually impossible until you’ve finally got them ready for the net, but even then it’s not a cert as they will often get a second life and shoot off again.

Keith
 

John Aston

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It can work but can also produce own goals . The dirtiest fighting fish I have ever encountered are big (3-5lb ) wild trout in an overgrown small river with flood debris , roots and snags a constant hazard. The best technique I found was side-strain, combined with constant changes in the angle I was pulling the fish . It wasn't infallible but it worked well enough to nearly triple my previous PB for wild river fish .
 

theartist

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With barbel often the harder you pull the harder they pull back, I rarely fish heavy but when i'm fishing with 6lb line sometimes I think how the hell do we get them in on roach gear, but we do and it often doesn't take much longer, then you sometimes find the line/hook of someone who hasn't had success with the same fish, using much heavier line. I'm not sure those who are 'carbelling' with 12lb line realize this and it would be a disaster if we were dictated to by a minimum breaking strain guideline on any water, what happened to the art of playing fish and the jeopardy of the fighting chance?

I can also back up the wild river trout power, they are mental and flipping strong and can take you to parts of the river where you never thought you would be playing a fish. Cracking fish absolutely love them.
 

nottskev

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I'm assuming sensible anglers use the gear they need to extract fish from their particular waters. I've fished rivers where barbel of 4 or 5lb can be got out of swims that have "soft" characteristics - marginal rushes, softish weed in the water, fine gravel or sandy bottoms, with relatively light gear. etc. It's great, where this is viable. I mainly fish for barbel where the opposite is the case: rocky banks, with rocks that have rolled out into the river, snags of all kinds, visible and unseen, masonry, the debris of a long history of being a working river, and so on. And a pretty high average size of barbel. Much stronger gear is needed to dictate the fight. I never fish with a carbelling approach; all mine are caught on float, bomb, a small feeder or even freelining, and almost always within 20 yards. Even so, it takes strong gear as well as a bit of skill playing them to make sure you land the barbel you hook.
 

theartist

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It's nearly always about barbel nowadays when chub head for snags far better than barbel do, if you can get chub in you can get barbel, I fear most anglers now go straight to barbel or carp without honing their skills on the other species. Watching the barbel around snags they are snagging by chance and not heading there with purpose like chub do, this includes the rocky rivers I fish which I am sure are on a par with others in the country.

Ps in these swims I snag up on far too much lost line that is like rope, I don't think you can go heavy enough in such swims, those rocks or a submerged tree will always win if a fish goes the wrong side of it.
 

nottskev

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It's true that barbel don't generally have the tactical smarts of chub. But their sheer power, being stronger with greater stamina, and often, where I'm fishing, several times the size of the average chub, make's their reaching a snag or pulling your line across one, given their ability to hug the bottom, deliberately or otherwise, likely. And I've found many barbel who know exactly where their refuges and sanctuaries are, and make a bee line for them. I've fished twice this week in a swim where barbel hooked at the edge of the tree canopy 20m downstream have turned and ploughed straight for the sunken tree in the edge immediately upstream.

Many anglers fish for barbel in ways - gear and tactics - that I wouldn't want to. It's their business, unless it's demonstrably detrimental. I'm simply saying I often fish where the terrain demands that you tool up, no matter how fast you are to react to bites or how many fish you've successfully landed on light gear.
 

theartist

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It's true that barbel don't generally have the tactical smarts of chub. But their sheer power, being stronger with greater stamina, and often, where I'm fishing, several times the size of the average chub, make's their reaching a snag or pulling your line across one, given their ability to hug the bottom, deliberately or otherwise, likely. And I've found many barbel who know exactly where their refuges and sanctuaries are, and make a bee line for them. I've fished twice this week in a swim where barbel hooked at the edge of the tree canopy 20m downstream have turned and ploughed straight for the sunken tree in the edge immediately upstream.

Many anglers fish for barbel in ways - gear and tactics - that I wouldn't want to. It's their business, unless it's demonstrably detrimental. I'm simply saying I often fish where the terrain demands that you tool up, no matter how fast you are to react to bites or how many fish you've successfully landed on light gear.
Absolutely, and my point is more and more, Barbel seem to be taking precidence and those advocating stronger gear seem to be influencing general river fishing nowadays. Contrary to your findings of barbel making a bee line for snags which to be fair is the common assumption I have experienced countless cases where they could have easily taken me to the cleaners but opted to stay in cover and not head for trouble, whilst much smaller chub in the same swims have done me, could it be the harder you pull the harder they pull back? I think so, not always but in many cases and whilst I'm not advocating using light lines for them per se I do think you can enjoy them whilst after other species and suffer similar ratios of breakages to anglers using heavier gear. It's all about that first run with barbel as you know

I think carp are similar, you get them and tease them away from that first run and then wonder why they potter about under your rod tip when they could easily take you round the corner, into the trees etc Then you see the dude opposite you hauling them up the bank in ten seconds because of the gear he's got, we need to find a balance we are all comfortable with but I feel it pays to be as light as you can get away with and not tailored to a general blueprint. Your point that the gear should match the swim is a good one but when you hear of minimum breaking strains being touted on some waters you feel the general advice is going further from the way we all started fishing.
 

108831

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Lets be honest,not every barbel swim on the Trent is full of snags or sharp boulders,my experiences are these sorts of swims will home lots of barbel,I dont target them there,on the Gt.Ouse several good barbel swims were massive fallen tree,where the flow had scoured out hidey holes for them,very few of the bigger fish came out of them because they were invariably lost,purely in their normal act of dashing off downstream upon hooking themselves,which lead them home and dry,ive landed many barbel on the Severn on the float as I know Rob has,however,obviously the more chance you have of a double then lines should go up,when fishing the Ivel lines between 5-7lb landed many big doubles,up to just under 18lbs,but in winter with few snags to speak of it was ok...
 

steve2

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Longest fight I ever had was with a near double barbel hooked in the tail. It took around 45 minutes. Tackle was cane avon and 6lb line not enough power in the rod to control the fish, it controlled me.
 

theartist

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Lets be honest,not every barbel swim on the Trent is full of snags or sharp boulders,my experiences are these sorts of swims will home lots of barbel,I dont target them there,on the Gt.Ouse several good barbel swims were massive fallen tree,where the flow had scoured out hidey holes for them,very few of the bigger fish came out of them because they were invariably lost,purely in their normal act of dashing off downstream upon hooking themselves,which lead them home and dry,ive landed many barbel on the Severn on the float as I know Rob has,however,obviously the more chance you have of a double then lines should go up,when fishing the Ivel lines between 5-7lb landed many big doubles,up to just under 18lbs,but in winter with few snags to speak of it was ok...
Those Ivel barbel were right beasts eh Alan. But it goes to show no matter how we fish, or care for the fish and the environment there's no comparison to the damage a handful of released Otters can do.
 

Philip

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I find Barbel rather dumb fighters that basically pull as hard as they can in the opposite direction to what your pulling in. Chub on the other hand I get the distinct impression they actually try and snag you if they can.

Having watched Barbel feeding from high vantage points as I guess we all do from time to time I have noticed they often sweep off to one side & downstream after picking up a bait. They bank their flank and pectorals to the current as they turn & swoop off. They then take up a position slightly downstream & begin to work their way back up again snout in the gravel. That I assume is why we often get those massive bites that almost pull the rod in. The fish is picking up the bait and turning in the current causing the huge rod wrenching bite. As it realizes its hooked rather than assume a new station slightly downstream it just continues to power off down the current and that’s when you get that massive first run.

Regarding the strength of the tackle I don’t think the t/c of the rod actually makes that much difference to the pressure you can exert & lighter through action rods can exhert as much if not more pressure as a much higher t/c rod.
 

nottskev

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I love to catch fish on the lightest gear I can responsibly use. My gear is all 90's match float rods, and light feeder rods. My poles are pre-carp models and, save for a single "tench" topkit with black hydro, all kits are below old-school no 8. Barbel, though......Over the years I've caught barbel on about a dozen rivers, before moving where I live now, often on what you'd call general or regular gear, but the combination of the characteristics of the river (on the stretches I fish) and the so far ever-increasing average size of the fish has led me, via practical experience not some yen to haul fish on unsporting gear, to make my gear adequate to the demands. It's as simple as that. There are some places where I'll happily fish for both chub and barbel on 8/6 or 6 through, but, believe it or not, where I fish, the swims that allow you the luxury of reliably playing barbel out on that are uncommon.

We all know that chub are tricky customers and adept at snagging us up, finding a refuge etc. But I don't go for this picture of barbel as powerful but relatively dumb etc. On both the Trent and the Dove, where I've caught a fair few, I've found that some barbel make you go phew, thank god it ran out into open water etc, but just as many know exactly where they want to go and will bulldoze and tunnel their way into snags, even on gear that would allow you to wind chub in. I'm aware that some open-water carbellers use their heavy gear to simply pump barbel in. So much for that. I do my barbel fishing in water full of features, without tripods, bite alarms and camping gear. It's often up close and personal and you often play them in a small space where you still need to do everything right, heavy gear or not, the outcome is not guaranteed, but lighter options just won't get them out.

A friend and I fished adjacent swims today; well, 50m apart. Here's one of mine from today, from a swim bookended by snags. The fight was fairly short and rather brutal, but the fish are not left with hooks and/or terminal tackle attached, and are not exhausted by a protracted struggle and recover quickly


ft22.jpg


My friend, an angler of equal experience who's caught just as many barbel, hooked 4 fish and landed one, simply unable, on his 10lb line, to stop others making it to the snags, despite their alleged dumbness. Two got into the snag; one snapped his hooklength when he tried to put the brakes on it. I did warn him. They say to understand another person walk a mile in their shoes. To which I'd add, and fish their swims.

I recently turned down the chance to join a group with some interesting stillwater fishing because they insist on a 12lb minimum line. I don't go for that. Choose line according to who's fishing where for what, and what it requires to get what you hook out..
 

theartist

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If you were in your friends swim Kev would you get them out and how far would you go in regards hit and hold gear given he was fishing 10lb and still suffered lost hooks?
 

Philip

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Based on nothing scientific and just what I see with my own eyes so call it a hunch, I consider Barbel one of the less intelligent fish. Certainly less than Roach, Rudd Chub, Dace, Pike, Zander, Eels and Carp.

The majority of fish hooked I suspect do two things, the first is to swim as fast as it can away from whats frightening it and second, swim towards somewhere it feels safe. An exception I can think of are Carp who have learnt by association not to bolt on being hooked and try and eject the hook on the spot....anyone ever seen a Barbel do that ? ...Some fish also just fight “clever” … …we all seem to agree Chub fall into that category.

Barbel I get the impression rely for the most part on their power to get them out of trouble. Their relatively poor eyesight may also play a part and it may be as simple as they cant see well enough to make split second decisions while they are disorientated mid fight like say a Chub.

To me Barbel even look a bit dopey…but of course that’s subjective & beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)
 

nottskev

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I just read that some dude at Drayton Res caught 114 carp including a 35lb fish in 24 hours. The winner of a UK Carp Championship qualifier there caught 118 carp for a weight of 1,442lbs in 48 hours.

These carp need to brush up on their bait-testing and hook ejection skills, or their reputation for intelligent caution might suffer.
 
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