Banded or hair rigged?

[Andy M]

A quick question for the more experienced: Is a banded pellet sitting next to the hook as effective as a hair rigged pellet. Grateful for your thoughts.

 

[The bad one]

Always a sliding hair so the pellet can sit at the back of the shank of the hook for me.

 

[Keith M]

I’ve never used bait bands and much prefer to use a hair rig. For ease of use I usually use drilled baits together with a ‘QuickStop’; However bait bands are very effective as long as the bait band you use is not too thick.

Also certain fish that sometimes pick your bait up in their mouths; instead of sucking it in; and move away before swallowing the bait like Chub and Tench often do; require a very short hair or the use of a bait band, (or a hook mounted bait) to stand more chance of being hooked.

NB: I often use a slightly longer hair rig for Barbel when I am trying to avoid Chub from being hooked when they pick up my bait and it works a treat.

Keith

 

[Philip]

Interesting. With hairs i like a bait trapped in position on the hair so it cannot slide up and down.
By that i mean if i want a (for example) 1cm bait to hook separation i will try and ensure the bait is 1cm from the hook and cannot slide back up the hair to touch the shank.

Thats not always the case with predrilled baits like pellets for example which unless trapped in position will slide up.and down the hair as the hole is too big to hold it in place and i really dont want a bait thats able to move back and possibly impede penetration on a self hooking rig.

You can also band a bait away from the hook. Just tie the band to the end of the line then tie a knotless knot and leave whatever separation you like between the band and the hook.

In all cases i would tend to use longer hairs for Barbel than say Chub.

 

[108831]

Philip,is that for 'nuisance' species avoidance,or do you feel a benefit of hook ups,I find if I want to avoid chub that if I use pellets the chub are not so keen as they would be with a boilie say,only when fishing meat,maggot and casters do I try hard to avoid chub....

 

[Andy M]

Many thanks for your useful tips guys!

 

[108831]

These days i'm fishing,with a capital F,if a bream,chub,roach,tench or carp comes along they are welcome to the party,that would change if I was targetting a particular big barbel,then I would fish a four inch hair if that helped,my normal hair takes the bait around 6/8mm from the bend of the hook,hook sizes can at times make big differences,especially on pressured water and I have used a 15mm boilie on a 14's hook,totally wrong in fishing terms and I would normally be on a 10,sometimes barbel are craftier than people think,especially in daylight with limited numbers of fish.

 

[Philip]

Philip,is that for 'nuisance' species avoidance,or do you feel a benefit of hook ups

Its can be for both Alan.

As I a sure you know the subject of hooking arrangements/hairs and so on has many permutations and you could literally write a book on that alone.

Generally speaking If I can get away with it I like long hairs / good hook to bait separation as I think keeping the bait away from the hook does help initial pricking with the hookpoint when fishing bolt rigs. I also use it to try and avoid the other species. Chub for example as a few have mentioned are more likely to pick up the bait in the lips and back off while a Barbel will just move over the bait and hoover the whole lot up…Barbel in my opion are one of the easiest fish to hook on a bolt rig, they literally have anti eject mouths.

Trefor West wrote a great deal on the subject of avoiding Chub in his latest book, a really good read if you have not seen it. Allot of his tactics are about ignoring the tugs and pulls from the Chub who eventually wise up, back off and give up and then along comes a Barbel and takes it with a bang.

As you mention, sometimes just the choice of bait can help avoid Chub as well, although of course it will never avoid the odd suicidal one that is going to hang itself whatever the cost !

On the other hand I will sometimes sacrifice a long hook to bait separation if I have to, to keep the bait and rig fishing effectively for longer. What I mean by that is that sometimes fishing say long hairs in a situation were your hooklink and bait is going to be moved about allot, for example current/boats/Bream having tugs at it etc etc then your asking for tangles which will render your rig useless. In those situations I’ll sacrifice the hookup potential of say a long hair to fish something I know will stay in position better to ensure it stays fishing effectively for longer. In those sitaitions I might fish something like a swimmer rig, basically a bait holder (spike /screw etc) to a very small loop tight to the back of the hook. Setup right its impossible for the bait to turn round and mask the hookpoint, even if you screw it up into a ball and throw it in it will still end up fishing right.

For Chub fishing if I am after them specifically most of the time it will be trotting or using tiny link ledgers and the like with the bait directly on the hook. I know bolt rigs can be effective for them but I just prefer fshing for them in a more "old fashioned" way .

 

[108831]

Thanks for the in depth reply Philip,I find that I do many of the things you mention and for the same reasons,or have done,as a matter of interest,what sort of length of hair are we talking here,ie bend of hook to bait to achieve this seperation?

 

[Philip]

Its all reative for example at the moment i am fishing for Roach with a hair..small fish, small mouth, i would consider 1cm to be long. If its Carp or Barbel then like you i have no problem fishing very long hairs of several inches if i thought it would help.

However to more directly anwser your question my starting point is a bit less than a cm. Once i get to say 2cm or more i would consider it long. I am talking bend of hook to top of bait & not where it exits the whipping of the knotless knot.

 

[108831]

Yes,we are all singing from the same hymn sheet Philip,that is how I normally think,a cm is fine,unless your trying to hook chub,lol,they are clever fish really,though they want to eat everything,their suspicious nature dictates how they pick up a bait,unlike bream,who want to pull at anything....

 

[Philip]

Yes I put Chub right up there in the intelligence stakes too. They also have excellent eyesight. Its a good combination which means they can make themselves very tricky to catch but their greed overcomes their caution at times.

 

[108831]

Especially with maggot and caster,irresistible...

 

[dorsetsteve]

A branded pellet is a lost pellet in my opinion. I like to keep casting to a minimum and that means having a bait that stays on. Now Chub being what they are will pop a boilie off easy enough, a banded pellet lasts 5 minutes. Fine if your regularly casting a feeder or float, useless for sitting behind.

 

[108831]

Not with a pellet stop though Steve,soft boilies however are chub heaven,their rubber gobs tighten on the boilie so when you strike at the ensuing wrap round often result in the stop being ripped out,buggers,lol....

 

[tigger]

A quick question for the more experienced: Is a banded pellet sitting next to the hook as effective as a hair rigged pellet. Grateful for your thoughts.

Yes, i've hooked a band on and then put a pellet into the band so the pellet is flush with the hook, works perfectly well when i've done it. You can have the pellet fush with the hook so it hangs straight off the bottom, or against the back of the shank. I often used that method of hooking on a pellet if touch legering.
If your pellet has a driled hole or you drill one yourself you can pull the band through the hole and it will tighten up as you release it holding the pellet in place. If you have problems with the pellet slipping off your hole in the pellet is to big, your band is too small. To prevent the pellet slipping off just add a stop of some kind under the band. Personally I don't bother with placcy stops from the shop and just use a hawthorn spike, piece of grass stalk etc.

 

[dorsetsteve]

Not with a pellet stop though Steve,soft boilies however are chub heaven,their rubber gobs tighten on the boilie so when you strike at the ensuing wrap round often result in the stop being ripped out,buggers,lol....

Tell me about it. I’m going though a spell at present of the buggers expertly leaving me baitless. I wound it after two hours the other night, baitless and wondering if I’d been “fishing” this way for 15 minutes or an hour a a half... hard Boilies, pellet stops, nothing stops the buggers.

 

[tigger]

Tell me about it. I’m going though a spell at present of the buggers expertly leaving me baitless. I wound it after two hours the other night, baitless and wondering if I’d been “fishing” this way for 15 minutes or an hour a a half... hard Boilies, pellet stops, nothing stops the buggers.

You leave your bait out for two hours!!

 

[dorsetsteve]

You leave your bait out for two hours!!

Yeah, not unusual. These are specific things for the H.Avon, I would not approach the Wye for example in this way. I’m typically fishing for 3-5 hours around the turn of evening. I will if I can bare it sit on the one cast for a full five hours. The Barbel are not prolific by any stretch so I do not want to spook a fish casting or retrieving unnecessarily I also find that too many freebies just creates preoccupation and lessens a hook up.
Recasting a feeder every 15 minutes seems to be a recipe for a blank added with the inaccuracies and issues with back lead placement with marginal foliage in the dark, especially as limit head torch activity to next to null.
I did not have the bait robbing issue last year, either the rod exploded into life or the original hook bait came back.

 

[tigger]

Yeah, not unusual. These are specific things for the H.Avon, I would not approach the Wye for example in this way. I’m typically fishing for 3-5 hours around the turn of evening. I will if I can bare it sit on the one cast for a full five hours. The Barbel are not prolific by any stretch so I do not want to spook a fish casting or retrieving unnecessarily I also find that too many freebies just creates preoccupation and lessens a hook up.
Recasting a feeder every 15 minutes seems to be a recipe for a blank added with the inaccuracies and issues with back lead placement with marginal foliage in the dark, especially as limit head torch activity to next to null.
I did not have the bait robbing issue last year, either the rod exploded into life or the original hook bait came back.

Only problem with leaving your bait out for so long is it might have fallen in a spot were it wont be found.
Maybe it would be worth using a large method feeder and a sticky mix so it breaks down very slowly and keeps ypur hook bait from slipping into any cracks etc?