Hmm. It could be that we're asking the wrong questions, giving the wrong answers or caring about things we shouldn't be caring about, and moaning and rattling on about things we don't understand. Maybe, as Brecht advised the East German government, it's time to dissolve the people and elect another one.
Barbel videos of late...
- Thread starter 108831
- Start date
Hmmm,I prefer float fishing than the pole,I accept the fact that at times the pole can be better,but it can be the exact opposite,however,using a four ounce feeder when a one ounce might work far better in certain conditions is poor angling,a bit like using a 4 no 6 stick float when a five bb would be the right choice,or when you can fish a quarter ounce bomb with loose feed and hold,what is the restful benefit of 4ozs of feeder that frightens every fish away,we all know it is everyone's choice,but if it leads to continual blanks is it the right one,most certainly not
Last edited:
sam vimes
Well-known member
I don't particularly disagree. However, if you actually want to persuade those that are using such methods that they are getting it wrong, you are on the wrong forum. Now if you were attempting to persuade the demographic present on here that they may be well served buying and using a pole, you might be onto something. It's little different to discussions on modern carping that take place on here. People can bemoan what carping has become, but they are largely preaching to the choir. The majority will agree wholeheartedly. However, most full on carpers come nowhere near FM. If you actually want to debate things with people that use such methods, you'll need to do so on facebook, BFW or similar. Don't be surprised if they are fairly uncharitable and dismissive about your views though. Whether you have a point or not is largely immaterial.
It may be that people have different idea of what a forum is and what a question is. If I ask on here why do (insert angling sub-group) do whatever it is they do, I'm not necessarily expecting a member of that group to pop up and explain or justify. I may well be fishing to see if anyone else has noticed it, do they have a view on it or anything to say about it. Similarly, if I put a view forward, I don't expect readers to be persuaded to it or inspired to take up the pole, but it may give rise to a bit of amusing chat or some further topic. It's a contribution to an online conversation that includes everything from Q/A on matters of fact, matters of opinion debated and discussed more or less seriously, to the kind of chat people with a shared interest enjoy. If I say 'Nice day' to the bloke next door, I don't expect him to say 'Check that with the Met Office'. Or 'I'm not remotely interested in what kind of day you're having'.
Lol,be sure i've been dismissive of their views in the past,in fact many better barbel anglers than myself have took opposing views to the BS, Fred Bonney and myself crossed swords many times when he was here,in fact that is why barbel wars became so heated,because of the BS blinkered attitude to their target species...
Absolutely Kev,I wasn't qustioning the fact they do it,just wondering if anyone knew why they did it wherever they went,without questioning it's effectiveness on any given day...
sam vimes
Well-known member
If there is no one here that does the thing you are asking about, what's the point of a) asking and b) any answers you may get? All that it can possibly do is reinforce your own ideas of what might be right or wrong because the overwhelming majority of like minds found on here will agree with you.
All that can be safely assumed is that those that use such methods do so because they consider it to be some combination of effective and enjoyable that they find agreeable. The fact that most on here will think different is irrelevant. If they don't believe it to be an acceptable level of effectiveness, then they must be of the being there is enough school of angling. There is also a chance that some will be rather limited anglers, one-trick ponies, that know little or nothing about alternative techniques. You can't tell that by looking though. I certainly know some modern carpers, barbellers and pikers that have never/rarely fished a float. They got into big fish legering at an early age and simply never bothered. They don't view float fishing as a viable method for anything they want to catch.
All that can be safely assumed is that those that use such methods do so because they consider it to be some combination of effective and enjoyable that they find agreeable. The fact that most on here will think different is irrelevant. If they don't believe it to be an acceptable level of effectiveness, then they must be of the being there is enough school of angling. There is also a chance that some will be rather limited anglers, one-trick ponies, that know little or nothing about alternative techniques. You can't tell that by looking though. I certainly know some modern carpers, barbellers and pikers that have never/rarely fished a float. They got into big fish legering at an early age and simply never bothered. They don't view float fishing as a viable method for anything they want to catch.
How do I know there isn't Chris,people from all over the country are members,most don't put pictures up,not only that if we sit here and dont start threads there will be no posts,maybe that is what is required???? Funny old world....
I don't recognise your characterisation of "like minds" on here. I write my own script and if this is an "echo chamber" it's odd that I rarely find my outlook reflected back to me. Often, I find the opposite.
You don't appear to be able to think around your idea that one can only discuss what people do with people who do it. Says who? You neither recognise the multiple conversational functions of a question - I've just pointed some out - nor the plain fact that responses/exchanges are not always pointless to those involved, although you do tend to step in and pronounce judgement.
It's odd, when you're fond of telling us that you don't care what people do, it's their choice, that you seem to get so irritated when what they do is post outside your narrow views of who can usefully talk to whom about what.
Sorry if this seems rude, but it's hard to reply when you're addressed as one of a group of moaners and witterers, imprisoned in the blinkered views of their demographic and stumbling around in the dark. Harder still when you get lectured with stunning insights like 'people do what they do cos that's what they like to do'.
You don't appear to be able to think around your idea that one can only discuss what people do with people who do it. Says who? You neither recognise the multiple conversational functions of a question - I've just pointed some out - nor the plain fact that responses/exchanges are not always pointless to those involved, although you do tend to step in and pronounce judgement.
It's odd, when you're fond of telling us that you don't care what people do, it's their choice, that you seem to get so irritated when what they do is post outside your narrow views of who can usefully talk to whom about what.
Sorry if this seems rude, but it's hard to reply when you're addressed as one of a group of moaners and witterers, imprisoned in the blinkered views of their demographic and stumbling around in the dark. Harder still when you get lectured with stunning insights like 'people do what they do cos that's what they like to do'.
Last edited:
I like that. Nice flow on the river there. Would you hold the line in slow/slack water? I find the slower the water, the more feeling/watching the line works. The rattles on the tip are harder to judge and react to,
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2009
- Messages
- 9,335
- Reaction score
- 1,692
Thanks Kev.
I don't think I ever hold the line, I prefer to watch it if there is no flow or i'm fishing a still water. If you take notice next time you use the method, you'll see that the tip will move way before the line down at the bottom of the rod. Infact, I can feel the taps through the rod when there is no sign of anything on the line.
Try it next time Kev
.
I don't think I ever hold the line, I prefer to watch it if there is no flow or i'm fishing a still water. If you take notice next time you use the method, you'll see that the tip will move way before the line down at the bottom of the rod. Infact, I can feel the taps through the rod when there is no sign of anything on the line.
Try it next time Kev
.Thanks Kev.
I don't think I ever hold the line, I prefer to watch it if there is no flow or i'm fishing a still water. If you take notice next time you use the method, you'll see that the tip will move way before the line down at the bottom of the rod. Infact, I can feel the taps through the rod when there is no sign of anything on the line.
Try it next time Kev
Righto. Funnily enough, I get an earlier sign through the line than I see on the tip. You're eyesight might be better. Maybe I have the fingers of a concert pianist. Were you using a float rod there? Pretty fine tip, then. I got in the habit of holding the line when had I some Avon type rod and the tip wasn't great at bite detection.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2009
- Messages
- 9,335
- Reaction score
- 1,692
I can feel it down the blank before I see the tip move, similar to jigging in 100ft of water for zander.
One easy way to see where your indication is first noticeable is if you use bobbins whilst legering. Your tip will always move well in advance of the bobbin or even an will alarm alert you. Just think about a quiver tip or swingtip, the tip will move before your line would down at the reel.
The rod is a supero 11 foot avon Kev. Those rods are fantastic, well, imo they are. They are so versatile, and are kind of like the Daley Thomson (the decathelete) of rods.
I've never found an avon rod suitable for long trotting until I got one of the hardy specialist or supero 11 footers.
One easy way to see where your indication is first noticeable is if you use bobbins whilst legering. Your tip will always move well in advance of the bobbin or even an will alarm alert you. Just think about a quiver tip or swingtip, the tip will move before your line would down at the reel.
The rod is a supero 11 foot avon Kev. Those rods are fantastic, well, imo they are. They are so versatile, and are kind of like the Daley Thomson (the decathelete) of rods
.I've never found an avon rod suitable for long trotting until I got one of the hardy specialist or supero 11 footers.
dorsetsteve
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2015
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 189
Just to offer a little balance.
The light link methodology it would most here apply can work perfectly well and I’ve used it myself. It does however require specific circumstances, such as slow water.
The heavy feeder method can also work but it also requires specific circumstances, most notably a sufficient head of fish so that competition gets the fish to drop their guard.
In short, there are many ways to get the job done and no one method will be the golden ticket in every circumstance, that’s where angling skill comes about isn’t it, adaptability. Some will apply the same method in every scenario and well that’s upto them.
Personally where I fish, I’m fishing fairly fast paced water say 1-1.5oz to hold bottom, with a low fish density but a much higher head of non target fish. I’m fishing short sessions after work and family time. Bait needs to be shelf life for convenience. The aim of the game is to keep the bait in the fed area until Berty can get to it, this means using a method that puts the Chub off and resists the silvers a 4lb Chub can ruin the chances of the target and therefore the swim for the evening. Often I will use a 3oz lead where an ounce would do, I lower this in position and even use a back lead. It’s a terrible set up for bite indication, but I actually don’t want to see or feel the bites because they are going to be a plenty from my non target. You might then realise that’s the purpose for the heavy lead, to prevent or reduce the chance of my baited rig from being dragged out the feed spot by small fish. When what I want to happen happens then all hell breaks loose and no degree of subtlety is required.
I don’t stick to that at all costs and doubtless if I fished a 12 hour session with hemp and caster on a light sensitive setup I’d catch my quarry. But I don’t have 12 hours or a gallon of perishable baits.
The light link methodology it would most here apply can work perfectly well and I’ve used it myself. It does however require specific circumstances, such as slow water.
The heavy feeder method can also work but it also requires specific circumstances, most notably a sufficient head of fish so that competition gets the fish to drop their guard.
In short, there are many ways to get the job done and no one method will be the golden ticket in every circumstance, that’s where angling skill comes about isn’t it, adaptability. Some will apply the same method in every scenario and well that’s upto them.
Personally where I fish, I’m fishing fairly fast paced water say 1-1.5oz to hold bottom, with a low fish density but a much higher head of non target fish. I’m fishing short sessions after work and family time. Bait needs to be shelf life for convenience. The aim of the game is to keep the bait in the fed area until Berty can get to it, this means using a method that puts the Chub off and resists the silvers a 4lb Chub can ruin the chances of the target and therefore the swim for the evening. Often I will use a 3oz lead where an ounce would do, I lower this in position and even use a back lead. It’s a terrible set up for bite indication, but I actually don’t want to see or feel the bites because they are going to be a plenty from my non target. You might then realise that’s the purpose for the heavy lead, to prevent or reduce the chance of my baited rig from being dragged out the feed spot by small fish. When what I want to happen happens then all hell breaks loose and no degree of subtlety is required.
I don’t stick to that at all costs and doubtless if I fished a 12 hour session with hemp and caster on a light sensitive setup I’d catch my quarry. But I don’t have 12 hours or a gallon of perishable baits.
Hi Steve,I think we all understand the mechanics of how it works,and why,but in low water levels,low oxygen levels and high temperatures barbel in particular are extremely spooky would you use one,if I fished the H.Avon during summer I wouldnt use a feeder,most fish I caught on the river in those conditions,I fed once every hour and a half with a dropper and used a straight running leger rig,many times a swan shot link,never with more than 6 swan,usually 3/4 cast alongside streamer weed,sometimes forced to use up to 2ozs,but that was with 6lb line,when I fish the Stour these days I normally use 1.5oz,sometimes 2oz,very occasionally 3oz leads with proper line,feeding via small pva bags,normally casting underarm to feather the plop,plus leaving each cast for at least 40 minutes if possible,casting a 3oz 2" plus diameter feeder with probably 2ozs of bait onboard every 10 minutes would result in any self respecting barbel to disappear into the dense weed,never to be seen again,even on the Wye,unless you experience different,a differing story however if the water was normal level or higher with colour and moderate temps....however nothing is written in stone,that is why bouncing meat will always catch odd fish.
Everyone who fishes for barbel fishes their own preferred method,if it is different to the ones I use I am very interested,if there is something I can add to my armoury as I have a very open mind to find an effective method,especially in difficult conditions,it may be that I can adapt parts of their techniques into mine,that is why it is good to mull things over.
I have limited experience of Barbel fishing, all on the Wye, if conditions and swim are suitable, I'll always try the float.
In other swims/ conditions, I've found lead and bag much more effective than a feeder, I always try to use just enough lead to hold where I want to. I do dislike feeders generally, I find them clumsy and cumbersome, and imo they snag a lot more than a straight lead, especially the open ended ones.
In other swims/ conditions, I've found lead and bag much more effective than a feeder, I always try to use just enough lead to hold where I want to. I do dislike feeders generally, I find them clumsy and cumbersome, and imo they snag a lot more than a straight lead, especially the open ended ones.
dorsetsteve
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2015
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 189
Agree Whitty.
I don’t use feeders on either river unless where in flood conditions. On the Wye though a modified feeder to dispense pellet can be lethal.
As for casting there aren’t many swims round here that require more than an underarm flick, many of my Avon swims I’m lowering the rig as opposed to even casting. I wouldn’t chose the 3oz unless I plan to sit on it, if I’m recasting more frequently then I’d automatically downsize the lead.
Is there also a case here that if your opting for the feeder that the market tends to provide a heavy feeder as a large feeder as opposed to the feeder size and weight being separate considerations.
I don’t use feeders on either river unless where in flood conditions. On the Wye though a modified feeder to dispense pellet can be lethal.
As for casting there aren’t many swims round here that require more than an underarm flick, many of my Avon swims I’m lowering the rig as opposed to even casting. I wouldn’t chose the 3oz unless I plan to sit on it, if I’m recasting more frequently then I’d automatically downsize the lead.
Is there also a case here that if your opting for the feeder that the market tends to provide a heavy feeder as a large feeder as opposed to the feeder size and weight being separate considerations.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2009
- Messages
- 9,335
- Reaction score
- 1,692
Not quite, I fish a link leger in very fast flowing water. The water in that clip wasn't exactly slow, infact you would struggle to wade across it! You can lighten or bulk your link up with shot as and when required.
The distance your fishing across the flow and the depth of water are more of a problem with a link leger if using too little weight. You could make a 10 ounce link leger if you wanted to, there's no limit to the weight you can add or detract.
Same applies to laying on with a float, I have layed on in quite powerfull glides, you just need to get the correct amount of weight on the link and enough bow of line out between the float and the weight. Again, distance across the flow is the main problem for laying on. A longer rod can be a huge benifit when laying on.