Big Ones Small Ones and All In Between

[INearlyCaughtOne]

Hope all are well and fishing is going well. Had some good sessions here recently but once again I find myself snagged. I have been on the feeder recently, catching well, plenty of small ones and the occasional bigger one but today something happened that is not only annoying but has made me question my set-up. For the feeder, I run an 8lb mainline to a 5.5 hook length. The hook length and line are separated by a swivel, I use a banded 4" Guru hook size 18. Now that does me well. I have had 4.5 lb tench on the hook, crucian, good bream etc but today I hit the limit. The tip went and I saw a bloody great carp on the other end, I was fishing close in and as I struck the fish bolted and the line snapped. That was not the plan. Now sure why as surely 8lb line is enough, but what about the hook length does it need to be stronger, and considering the fact that we do get the bigger ones at the venue should I be using a bigger hook with a stronger length. I'm sure everyone here must have come across this dilemma at some time which is why I am asking. How do you fish in a venue that caters for all sizes and prepare yourself for all possibilities. So frustrating...

 

[Badgerale]

5.5lb should be ok for fish up to low doubles. If you go heavier than 6lb then you defeat the point of having a hooklength imo.

That it immediately snapped might hint at something wrong - damaged line, bad knot, drag not set properly, striking too hard... who knows.

But ultimately, if there are big carp (15lb+) in there you will need to make a choice of whether to target them or the other fish. You can either fish too heavy for the crucians, bream and tench, or you can fish too light for the mudpigs. If you do hook the big boys on non-carp gear it's inevitable that some will be lost, but on the other hand you don't want to have to fish so heavy that you can barely feel a bream on there.

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

Good points Badgerale. The more I think this one through the more I can grasp the answer. The big carp tend to do one of two things over at the lake, they either bask in the middle around a few tiny island features or they can be found close to the banks near the weeds, and it's also where all the other stuff can be found. So I suspect that as I struck the bite the fish (that was strong) make a two-foot dash into the reeds with my line following. Snap!!!!!! The problem with so many venues is not the reeds (we have loads of wildlife sustained by them) but the way that the reeds can get very untidy and you can end up fishing through a little gap between them.

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

Good points Badgerale. The more I think this one through the more I can grasp the answer. The big carp tend to do one of two things over at the lake, they either bask in the middle around a few tiny island features or they can be found close to the banks near the weeds, and it's also where all the other stuff can be found. So I suspect that as I struck the bite the fish (that was strong) make a two-foot dash into the reeds with my line following. Snap!!!!!! The problem with so many venues is not the reeds (we have loads of wildlife sustained by them) but the way that the reeds can get very untidy and you can end up fishing through a little gap between them.

The ideal lake for me has a good clear area all around the swim...

 

[The Sogster]

Was it the hooklength or mainline that snapped?

Either way, it's possible that the hooklength may have been damaged on a previous fish thus comprising it.
Similarly with the mainline if the fish wraps immediately rounds a snag or is damaged on a gravel bar or mussels.

 

[Keith M]

If it wasn’t because it had already wrapped itself around a snag; or you were using a Pole; then I would tend to look at both the rod I was using and the amount of give in my line and especially the length of my hooklink.
A longer hooklength than the short one that you were using will give you a bit more stretch to absorb any sudden moves of a Carp, and a more forgiving actioned rod would also help as long as it wasn’t too forgiving; as you will still need to have a chance of steering it clear of the occasional lily bed if possible.

I’ve accidentally hooked and landed Carp up to 23lb on a 1.25 Tc semi through actioned leger rod on which I was targeting Tench and Crucians with 5 or 6lb line and a size 14 hook from a lilly strewn estate lake (see pic). so it is possible to play and land an accidentally hooked much larger fish on such tackle if you accidentally hooked one, as long as you are using more forgiving and balanced tackle, and not panicking too much.

A stiffer actioned rod with a short hooklength (as you indicated that you used) is definately not what you need if you are likely to accidentally hook larger Carp in my view. But balanced tackle with a more forgiving action together with a longer hooklength (with a little stretch in it) than the one you used would at least give you a better chance of being able to land the occasional unexpected lunker in my view.

You still might not be able to land it but it would still give you a better chance.


An accidentally hooked Carp which I managed to land on Tench gear from a lilly strewn estate lake.

Keith

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

Good points Keith. I think that I have worked it out, it's funny how you can see fishing so clearly a few hours later after a good dinner and a spot of tv. I was fishing the feeder, open cage, very close into the bank, in fact on feet away from me so the line was fairly tight (quiver tip) and to be honest I was not expecting more than a nice bream or tench so when these carp go ahold I struck as one would for your usual specimen and as I did so the line (that was already tight) was pulled hard as the fish made its way into the weeds that surround the bank and bang. Looking back, I can't really see that there would have been any way that I could have successfully played the fish as the fish was already in the landing area, it just had to bolt to the weeds around me. Now the thing is within this water we have a real variety of fish sizes, from good sized tench and bream to crucian and then carp in the doubles and what I have found out this summer over at the lake is that you never know quite what you are going to get. Plenty of small fish then suddenly a good tench; loads of small tench then suddenly a good bream in size. Coupled with the fact that the lake has loads of reed that the fish can move towards I am thinking that although a 10lb line is heavy it will hopefully cover some of the possibilities in fish size that the lake holds. By the way Kieth, that's a dam nice fish you have there!

 

[mikench]

Think of trees. The large and strong oak and the sapling in a hurricane. The oak cannot bend or absorb the strength of the gale so is prone to being uprooted. The sapling bends in the wind and absorbs its force. Let your rod do the work aided by a loose drag or a freespool. Mind you fish make a beeline for reeds, lilies or other snags for good reason and will happily wrap your feeder around either. Check your line, knots and try a longer hook length; 4" is fine for the method but may be a touch too short. You clearly haven't studied the laws of Murphy . When you set out for roach and crucians with an 18 or 20 hook to 3lb hook length you invariably attract a carp. Swap to heavier gear and you frighten them all off. It's all part of the joys of fishing.??

 

[108831]

Sadly(or not)fish are lost and though annoying,it's part of our exciting pastime,i've had massive fish on lighter line than 5.5lb hooklengths,yet been broken on far heavier,if your rods,reels and lines are balanced it is unlikely and unusual to be broken(but unusual things happen,so damaged hooklengths seem probable,my suggestion is,accept it and maybe check your line near the hook more carefully after disgorging each fish...

 

[mikench]

If you need to use forceps and cannot be 100% certain you only gripped the shank of the hook, change it. Forceps and whipped Line on a knot less knot are not recommended as the line will be damaged. If in doubt change the hook.

 

[108831]

Imho forceps are only any good for predators,deeply hooked cyprinid species should be unhooked carefully with a disgorger,but still you need to check your hooks and lines...

 

[john step]

If you are fishing at close range without suitable safety built in such as loose clutch or baitrunner then a big carp will upon bolting snap even 10 or 15 hooklink or the knot thereon. Its the bolt that breaks tackle.

18 hook seems small to me. When having a dabble with hybrid feeders the last couple of summers I have used either the Guru or Korum ready 4 inch hooklinks that come out at about 12lb. to size 12 or 10 hooks.
The pull rounds are vicious so strong tackle has a built in satety factor.

When roaching on the float at one particularly carpy water I drop down to a 16 hook and a high tec 4lb bs line but fish a pin or a very light clutch as when hooking a carp even a modest one I dont want that initial bolt to break and leave a hook in a fish.

 

[flightliner]

I'm fishing the Trent for roach at the moment with feeder tactics. Twice this year Barbel have crashed the party, no real surprise really, with so many about it's almost inevitable.
A take followed by a long dash down or across the river is worrying as any sudden change of direction puts an enormous strain on both line and hooklink with a break, usually the weaker hooklink.
My mainline is 8lb, my hooklink is 5lb to a Drennan wide gape specialist hook with g/bait feeders with extra lead added for anchorage so to avoid a break I make sure they are adapted to avoid dissapointment by adding a 2" powergum link/attachment to cushion the shock of a fishes change of direction in the fast, powerful currant.
Powergum feeders can be be bought ready made but mine I make myself as a rule in order to have the luxury of choosing the sixe I require on a given day.
A four ounce quivertip to my 1-75 tc rod has proved itself several times recantly as being ok for the job.
I think it was Walker back in the seventies who highlighted this problem when he was fishing Grafham water for trout saying cruising fish giving a long run on hooking up would turn suddenly and he would be left with nothing.

 

[chevin4]

Hope all are well and fishing is going well. Had some good sessions here recently but once again I find myself snagged. I have been on the feeder recently, catching well, plenty of small ones and the occasional bigger one but today something happened that is not only annoying but has made me question my set-up. For the feeder, I run an 8lb mainline to a 5.5 hook length. The hook length and line are separated by a swivel, I use a banded 4" Guru hook size 18. Now that does me well. I have had 4.5 lb tench on the hook, crucian, good bream etc but today I hit the limit. The tip went and I saw a bloody great carp on the other end, I was fishing close in and as I struck the fish bolted and the line snapped. That was not the plan. Now sure why as surely 8lb line is enough, but what about the hook length does it need to be stronger, and considering the fact that we do get the bigger ones at the venue should I be using a bigger hook with a stronger length. I'm sure everyone here must have come across this dilemma at some time which is why I am asking. How do you fish in a venue that caters for all sizes and prepare yourself for all possibilities. So frustrating...

8lb line should be fine but you may need to consider your hook length. Some hook lengths are pre stretched and therefore not very forgiving if a carp bolts. I have caught carp up to 19lb on Maxima straight through whilst tench its a brand as old as the hills but still one of the best IMO. Also have a look at the rods fast taper rods and lightish hook lengths don't make a good marriage particularly when fishing at short range.

 

[nottskev]

Weren't you surprised by a big carp a while back? It should be less of a surprise by now......

Your lake sounds enviably fishy, with bream, tench and carp lining up a few feet way. It's difficult to communicate by a forum how to give yourself the best chance of landing everything. But why not step up your hooklength a bit? If it doesn't deter fish biting - and they sound like an obliging bunch - it may solve your problem.

It's not necessarily all about tackle - where you position your feeder or feed, how you anticipate a bigger fish and react to bites etc plays a part. If you're just getting the hang of things, probably better to err on the heavy side. I'd guess there are others fishing your lake? You can pick up a lot by watching how anglers who seem to have it down are setting about it. Or even ask - it's a rare churlish angler who won't show someone how they're set up or catching.

At least you're getting plenty of bites, so you've got it mostly cracked.

 

[ian g]

I wonder if you are fishing close in if you need a feeder , just feed by hand? It wont stop bigger fish bolting off but might help if they make it to the reeds .

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies, all useful. Yes, nottskev the lake has an excellent stock of non-predatorial fish of varying sizes, you can catch a small bream one minute and sometime later a good-sized tench or crucian, roach or perch. I leave the bigger carp to the guys and gals who sit for hours waiting for the moment, the Carp, however, strike when least expected. I'm fishing tomorrow so I will look for a clearer place to fish so I can cast more away from me and I think that would give me an edge, you cant play a fish when it's already 6 feet away from you and near the weeds! I need to be able to let the thing run a bit, looser drag, knacker it out and then bring it in. Another issue I have is with the hook lengths, the Guru are excellent but today I have spent some time (in fact a long time) with a magnifier (don't laugh) putting together my own lengths (longer than 4") to an 8 lb line and I have upped the mainline to a Drennan 10lb whilst at the same time getting rid of my obsession with size 18 hooks and instead going for a 14. I think that set-up will cover all the possibilities and I could even fish for the bigger ones to boot...

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

I think the 18 sized hook is great for most things but in a venue that has across the board sizes, it's pushing it a bit.

 

[Philip]

If your tackle is sound and your knots are good then perhaps your clutch may be too tight. Especially with hooklinks a fish making a sudden sharp run on an overtight clutch can be curtains & the bigger the difference between the hooklink and mainline breaking strain the worse the problem becomes.
Slacking off your clutch a little and then applying finger pressure to the spool to add more pressure when needed can be a good way to play them. Worth mentioning as well that if I can do away with a hooklink altogether and fish straight through then I will.

Specific tackle obviously depends on the specific situation each time…so the water, snags, size of fish and so on and its never easy to find a perfect solution to everything.

Much/most of my own fishing over the last few years has been about exactly that type of compromise. For example like Flightliner I am often targeting Roach on rivers but I am certain to hook Barbel, Carp and even Catfish.

After a lot of messing around with hooklinks, rods, lines and so on I have pretty much standardized on 6lb line, a size 10 hook & an old 1.25 t/c avon rod. The hooklink is the same as the mainline. I am very confident with this tackle. Although I still lose fish from hookpulls from time to time I lose very few due to a break. Its surprising just what you can land on balanced tackle that you are used to & know the limits of. I landed this Carp from a big snaggy river late last year while after Roach on the setup described above, it went 37lb..

 

[INearlyCaughtOne]

@Philip First of all what a lovely fish! I agree with every point here and I know that recently I have been playing around with drag, I am certain that I had it set tight. The tight drag came about as a result of catching a lively tench that took me by surprise and at the time the drag was very loose, I got the fish in but because of the loose drag, it was difficult. So a few sessions back I tightened the drag and left it tight, hence the tackle was not set up for the bigger stuff, fine for a medium bream but not a medium carp. The hook length idea I also can leave or take, I often feel more confident with a straight-through approach and I tied a few hook lengths of my own yesterday, they are closer to the mainline breaking strain. I also have had a few problems with pre-tied lengths, the quality is not great at times. The 18 hook is a hang on from my earlier fishing when any small fish was a victory, now I get bigger stuff that needs to go. I was talking to an old boy fishing the lake the other day he was amazed that I had reeled in what I do on an 18, he uses a 14 as standard so my hook lengths are now a 14 hook. The 14 also hits a sweet spot because that size of the hook allows you to make a knotless knot the smaller sizes are impossible. So I have a plan at least and unless that 21 pounder finds my hook today I am hope full. The other plan is of course to fish a little further out. Even if you get the bite close in it is really difficult to land from close in because the reeds are literally right next to you. Further out, fewer bites but more of a chance to land...