Cane rod refurbishment

Alan Tyler

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
51
Location
Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
It looks a bit uninhabited here at the moment, so although it's not strictly a "build", I thought I'd set the ball rolling with a thread about refurbishing a cane rod.
According to the rubber butt button, it's a Milbro, but buttons can be swapped... it's a 10'6" long, three piece, basic "bottom rod" with whole cane butt and middle and a split-cane tip; nowhere near enough rings, varnish on the cork handle (Ye Gods!), and evidence of having been re-whipped and varnished in the past. Probably 1950's. Expect to pay £10-15 at a car boot, flea-market or on ebay.
Oh, and the tip's male ferrule clunks, and appears to have been pinned.
My main reason (ok, ulterior motive) for doing this as a forum thread, rather than try to work it up as an article is that I foresee needing quite a lot of help and advice. And my photos aren't too good.

Enough preamble: to business.
Job 1 : Unvarnishing the handle.
At this point, I realise I can neither save what I've written so far nor link to pictures until I've opened a gallery, so I invite you to imagine a slim cork butt, with a spring-onion-ish swelling at the top, made vile with a coat of brown windsor varnish. What to do?
In smarta*se mode, I thought of the wife's little steamer; but couldn't find the dam' thing.
In "Oh, c*ck, what now?" mode, I thought of batteries of paint strippers, caustic soda, Mr. Muscle sprays and the like - but what would they do to the cork, and the glue, and the aluminium fittings?
So I started by doing what I'd do with any other grubby rod-handle, and gave it a scrub with a nail-brush and washing-up liquid, under a hot tap.
Whoopty-doo, clean grotty varnish.
Then a gentle go with an old scouring pad. No damage to the cork, but a few flakes of varnish gave up and washed off. I carried on for a spell, and some more varnish yielded, but most stayed firm. NEXT!?
Steam? no steamer to hand, but could try the kettle...
Attacking a steamed but obstinate patch of varnish with my thumbnail, I had a breakthrough - it wrinkled as I ran my nail over it. Now, cork doesn't do that, and if you can get the varnish to move in a way that the cork doesn't, you're well on the way to separating them.
Back to the tap (as less of a hazard to the thumb), and wrinkled varnish was indeed persuaded to flake away from the cork. But this was a battle of attrition - which would wear out first, one small thumbnail or rolling acres of forty-year-old (p'raps) varnish? I could end up wearing my thumb to the bone ... bone? I had a bone folder, for creasing pages for bookbinding... nearer to hand, bone-handled knives...
You've guessed. A vigorous massage under the hot tap with a butter-knife's handle, and great flakes of varnish lay in the sink, and the cork lay pink and new. A bit of thumbnail work on some really obstinate bits (where the varnish clung to a crevice in the cork) and it looked factory-fresh.
A satisfying start, but was I lucky? Have any of you met corks varnished with sterner stuff? And how did you deal with it? Do tell...
 

Alan Tyler

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
51
Location
Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
Does this work?
http://www.fmcarp.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=52&pictureid=497
it ought to be a (poor) picture of the whole rod, showing the varnished butt and the lack of rings...

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------

http://www.fmcarp.com/forums/album.php?albumid=52

Any better?

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

I guess not. If anyone can be bothered, pic two is the important one, showing the varnish flaking off and the roundness of the knife-handle used. For some bizarre reason, they've uploaded in reverse order, so 1 is the restored butt, almost dry, 2 is the unvarnishing by bone handle, 3 is the result of the soft scourer, and I've forgotten the precise order of the others now, but at least one of them shows the ghastliness of the varnished cork.

Next jobs: work out what the ring numbers and spacings ought to be - ANY IDEAS, FOLKS?; remove rings, strip blank and revarnish, and try and work out what to do about the clunking ferrule.

Once I can add pictures. Easily.
 

Alan Tyler

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
51
Location
Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
Hi, Chavender, I can see that would work if you like the ringing pattern (though I prefer just to measure the spacings from the tip of each section, and jot them down on an index card).
Trouble is, this only has four intermediates plus butt and tip rings on a 10'6" rod - fine for a long-range carp rod, but for trotting?
So, I need to figure out a way to space the rings so that, with the rod bent to its test curve, no ring makes more than a (say) 10degree angle in the line - and that to be symmetrical; and that no rings are so far apart (this applies lower down the rod) that wet line will easily cling to the blank.
I also want double butt rings, for lazy centre-pin work! (Not only a tackle tart, but a slob too - the ruffest of slappers, I fear!)
I've always done it by eye and drafting tape, but I can't help thinking there must be a more scientific way!
 

Wag

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincs
Hi Alan,

I found some excellent stuff on positioning guides (and rod building in general) here:-

http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/staticguide.html

The method relies on the old "suck it and see" method of working out where rings go, but the idea of using one line to flex the rod and another to get ring spacing right makes lots of sense to me.
 

Alan Tyler

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
51
Location
Barnet, S.Herts/N. London
Right, backtracking a bit, and thanks to the wonde

r of whatever BB code might be, lessavago at those pics:

picture.php


Above is the whole rod, showing the paucity of rings;

Below is the radiant beauty of varnished cork (shudder).

picture.php


Below, the effect of hot water and an old scouring pad:
picture.php


And now the biz: rounded knife-handle and flakes of varnish peeling off:

picture.php


Finally, the clean corks, almost dry:
picture.php


ARRERUYAH (Confucius).
 

Neneman Nick

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2004
Messages
2,875
Reaction score
1
Location
On the road to rack & ruin !!!
I brought an old hexagonal cane rod from a tackle dealer at a car boot today,it`s in need of refurbishment....new set of rings,new whippings and re -varnishing.I paid the princely sum of £6 for it and also over the past few weeks,i`ve gradually cleared him of all his old cork bodied floats,porcupine quills and celluloid floats also.
How much does it roughly cost to have such work undertaken on an old rod like this ??? I would dearly love to use this rod with some of my old style floats as well.
Could you also give me any idea on what size limit of fish i could expect to land on such a rod ???
I`m certainly not going to intentionally use it for largish carp etc..... and i doubt i will use it for trotting as i have an old bruce and walker rod for that.
The chap who i purchased it from has asked me to show him it when it`s fully restored to it`s former glory.
 

S-Kippy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
14,499
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Stuck on the chuffin M25 somewhere between Heathro
I embarked on this once and its not something to be undertaken lightly. I did it for no better reason than I wanted to be able to say I had...which I can.....but I wouldn't do it again.

I was scared stiff of what I might do to the rod using any kind of solvent so I did it the hard way.Hard graft and lots and lots of very careful work with a very sharp knife and very fine sandpaper.Fortunately the handle was in good nick and came up a treat with very little effort.Biggest difficulty I had was sourcing suitable replacement rings but I had the great good sense to measure and record the ring placings before I removed them.

Rewhipping was tedious in the extreme especialy as this one [A Wizard] had intermediate whippings....but I did it true to the original and even resisted the urge to rush the final varnishing,giving it several thin coats & rubbing down between each.I was dead chuffed with the results but first time out the top joint collapsed at the ferrule [cane rotten underneath] and I had to have that professionally repaired.Rather gutted at the suggestion the rest of the rod had been whipped by "the blind school" but I think [I hope] that was just a wind up.

Did I enjoy doing it ? Yes. Was it worth it ? Yes...I think so. Would I do it again ? No.

Good luck.Take your time and when all said & done its YOUR rod so if you're happy with the end result it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks.

I also have an old Hardy salmon rod which I intended to refurbish. That has layers of varnish that I dont think even a thermal lance would touch.

Skippy
 

the indifferent crucian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
861
Reaction score
1
Location
A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
Like you, through bitter experience, I have learned the most important rule of rod restoration........


Go fishing with it first !



Then you'll find out if it's worthy of your hard work and expense. I have bought and restored some right turkeys over the years...whilst they'll all catch fish, some are more suited to the study wall than the bankside.

Don't depend on a name, either. I have handled Wizards and Wallis Alrounds that were floppier than a half-cooked noodle !
 

Sean Meeghan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
6
Location
Bradford, West Yorkshire
Well folks I've gone and been and done it and made some offers on slow moving rods on eBay. I also pais a fair bit over the odds for a Chapman 500 Avon in need of a total rebuild. The cane and the handle are fine, but it needs re ringing and some ferrules. Watch this space!
 

the indifferent crucian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
861
Reaction score
1
Location
A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
Sean, you may welll find that John at Chapmans can help you with your ferrules...he keeps a lot of stock other than that mentioned on the site..


R Chapman & Co - Split Cane Blanks by British Craftsmen


He also has made the rings that H&H no longer carry...the man is without equal !


A good 500 will often fetch over three figures, so you may not have done too badly and it is a delightfull rod to use...so light, the aluminium handle being nicer by far than Richard Walkers broomhandle...Oh, ask John about that, too !


Chapman500De-luxeandFlickemreel003.jpg



You might care to convert your rod to a 'deluxe', the site gives the spacings to accomodate the extra ring. Sadly the original 'spinning' rod butt rings are no longer available but John has fine alternatives.
 

Sean Meeghan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
6
Location
Bradford, West Yorkshire
Oh and I've now got a Chapmans 550 (perfect) a Cliff Constable Forty Fore (almost perfect) and various unloved bits of cane that I rescued from eBay.

My name is Sean and I am a cane-aholic:(
 

the indifferent crucian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
861
Reaction score
1
Location
A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
Aha..so it was you Sean. I've been chatting with a few pals about the Forty Fore and we all wondered whether it was a mis-spelling of the weight of the Bishop ? There's been a few of them on eBay lately. It looks as though it might be a Walker mark IV copy, we thought.



Perhaps you might enjoy this site....



In The Net UK - Information for the Angler...


Lots and lots of photos of tackle and useful reference.
 

Sean Meeghan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
6
Location
Bradford, West Yorkshire
Already in my favourites!

I bought the Constable rod on a whim (ouch!). What little I could find out about him indicated that he'd had a top class rod building pedigree and his cane fly rods were highly regarded. He seemed to use a golfing theme when naming his rods so I don't think it was a mis-spelling.

Oh and I've just noticed that the 500 has a split where the cane segments have come undone near the tip. Any idea what glue is best to repair this?

Looks like I'll be close whipping the rod as well as new ferrules and re-ringing it:(

---------- Post added at 16:09 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Oh, bit slow there - yes I suppose it probably is a fishing/golfing pun:eek:
 

the indifferent crucian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
861
Reaction score
1
Location
A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
Ah, that's unfortunate...if you mean the six triangles of cane have separated from one another it really means a total strip down of the sections and a total re-build, I'm told.

Personally I'd try and separate the sections and re-glue just what is damaged. Apparently modern glues mean close-whipping hasn't been needed since the Fifties, so you may be able to keep it original in appearance, if that is what you wish.
I use Araldite Rapid as it a has good degree of flexibility when set, but I'd speak to John at Chapmans or Norman Agutters before you proceed as the tip must bend to absorb a pull...I know I've done a similar repair and felt the tip was too stiff to be safe. I may be wrong though as I can't remember which rod it was and I haven't broken a tip. ( yet:eek:)

I suspect that tip sections get the varnish thrashed off them by trees and get plunged underwater to sink line......then the tip ring whipping absorbs a bit of water and the rest as they say........

I'm sure you'll sort it out and find it a lovely rod to use.
 

S-Kippy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
14,499
Reaction score
5,819
Location
Stuck on the chuffin M25 somewhere between Heathro
I'm not an out and out cane fanatic but I do have one or two [or more] occasional users.The Wizard which I refurbished and a rather good Kennet Perfection which I didn't. I also have a rod I picked up years ago on a whim which has always puzzled me.

Its a 3 piece built cane 10 and a half foot Avon marked B James. Quite pokey by comparison to the Mark IV...whipped in black,intermediate close whipping too.I understand it was a "special" built for an old boy so he could tie it to the crossbar of his bike.Trouble is it just doesn't look quite like any James rod I've ever seen but it also doesn't look like a home refurb.I've always wondered about this one but the provenance/source is good.

Ever heard of anything like this from the James stable or any pointers as to how to tell ? My meagre knowledge suggests its either an early or a late James rod or a wrong un...but then why go to such lengths ?If I were brutally honest I'd say it looks "rushed" .

I suppose if it is a special order then that would explain why I cant find out anything about it.

Any ideas ?

Its a steely beast too....not at all whippy.

Skippy
 

the indifferent crucian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
861
Reaction score
1
Location
A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
I'm told that B.James did indeed do one-offs and also that the whipping would be quite often erratic and 'rushed' as you describe. It's fairly well documented that the intermediates were inaccurate and really just decoration.

I think the attitude then was more to make a good tool to do the job, whereas we seem a little more concerned with appearance nowadays...perhaps foolishly.
It's the quality of the cane that counts and it has been suggested that the early James cane was supplied by Southwell and his amazing baking oven/press machine. Is the built cane particularly dark perhaps?

There is of course the three piece Avon Perfection, it might be a shorter version of that...

B James - Vintage Rods - InTheNetUK
 
Top