Cane rods

[little oik]

I am seriously thinking of getting a cane rod.It would be used for float fishing for tench. Most of the swims I fish tend to be a bit of jungle warfare.
Now getting down to nitty gritty ,after thinking about it I would feel a rod of about 11 ft capable of handling lines around the 6lb mark would suit me .Looking on flea bay I am restricted in what I can bid for due to sellers not willing to ship "abroad",So I got to thinking about buying one or making one from a blank from a "supplier"
Could I use a fly rod blank around about a 9 weight the reason why I ask is that looking on the web have come across a firm called Norman Aggutters. They do fly rod blanks as well as MK IV carp rods the latter I would feel would be a little heavy for what I am after.
The Fly rod in my opinion would enable me to have a fastish tip for casting a float and also being of a lighter persuasion would not be over gunned
Your Thoughts Please on A) my thinking and B) are aggutters blanks any good

 

[woody]

How far are you from the border and do you know anyone from the north? Parcels sent there are delivered by Royal Mail so no one could object to 'foreign' dispatches. It's a thought that gets around the situation.

Also, the size limit for lengths is 1.4 metres Air Mail, a lot of 3 pc 10'-6" rods will break down to less than that (look for Sealey Octopus rods). I'm sure if you ask these people in advance they might oblige. It's more likely they don't want to ship to other European countries anyway.

 

[little oik]

I have tried bidding on a couple even going to the extent of posting it to friends or relatives living in the UK. Unless the seller is willing to change the postage parameters I am unable to bid on the items because they are blocked to "overseas bids" would you believe.
The only sellers that seem to allow overseas bidding are selling top end rods which are going for silly money or they are not what I am looking for .I think there is a Edgar Sealey up there at the moment but they want 150 sterling for it !!!!! (although in good condition alledgedly)
Thats one of the reasons I thought about new blank as the condition would be good and the reconditioning of an old rod would be the same if not more than building a new one apart from the cost of the bits .I can get a 10ft 6 9 weight blank for about 100 sterling ,and at least I would know exactly what I would be buying

 

[richiekelly]

do a search on here for built cane rod kits, there is plenty of information that may be useful if you are looking to build a rod.

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

I just asked one manufacturer for you Oik, and he says that a bottom rod (not heard that one for a while) blank of 11-12ft in built cane would cost over £300. If you want one finished it would be over a thousand.

Well, I only arsed!

 

[little oik]

Have bit the bullet and having another go on flea bay have found a poss so will see how it goes .Its that last second bidding that gets me though ,Will let you all know how it goes .
I got those prices from norman agutters on his web site .he's got avon blanks for about 130 I think or there abouts anyway .Its all the rest of it though 25 for a set of ferrules 1.50 for a cork it soon mounts up even if you are building it yourself Thats without any of the reel furniture and rings etc .Gone are the days of a conoflex blank a few rings and corks and a fuji reel fitting and you would get change out of 25 quid ,or is that I am out of touch lol

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Hi Oik From my experience I wouldn't risk buying a fly rod to use for float fishing as they just don't have the action you need. They're OK for ledger rods and if you can pick up an old seatrout rod (rural auction houses are good bets) then you'll have a really nice tench and bream rod with a few new rings (go for double handed ones around 11ft) so you don't need to fiddle with the handle.

As Jeff found out, a new cane coarse rod will set you back a lot of dosh (Chapmans have just the blank for you, an 11ft 3in 1lb tc avon rod at £240).

Rods to look for are the 11ft Sealy Octofloat, Milwards Floatmaster or Floatrover, Dawsons of Bromley Sabrina(or Sabina), various Aspindales rods and, the holy grail, an Alcocks Wizard (also the Adonis or the Record Breaker). For tench I'd go for all split cane or whole cane butt with split cane top and middle (Whole cane butt and middle can be a bit on the fierce side).

If you're interested I've got a Dawsons Sabrina 10ft 6in that I'd be willing to let go for around £60 - pm me for details.

 

[oldnick]

Bear in mind that the adhesive used in those old rods was not up to modern standards and may have degraded to the point where the rod will fail in use. I think you need to find an example built not too long ago.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Bear in mind that the adhesive used in those old rods was not up to modern standards and may have degraded to the point where the rod will fail in use. I think you need to find an example built not too long ago.

The only time I've had a problem with this was when I used a 50 year old rod with no intermediate whippings to stop a double figure barbel (sad tale here). If there are intermediate whippings in good condition and no visible splits along the joints old cane rods are perfectly usable. I'm currently restoring a Wallis Wizard that's at least 60 years old and the cane is in lovely condition with no sign of splitting. I've also got a Milwards Fly Craft fly rod that was originally purchased in 1953 (it's older than me!) which is almost as new except for some rusted rings which I'm about to replace.

OK there is a slight risk, but hey you're generally not paying a fortune for them and they are nice to use.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Glue failure can be an issue, yes. But it is usually the case that the rod has been poorly stored or maintained.

I've just had one rod split apart in all these years. Sadly it was a very rare hollow-built tipped rod worth a mint! ( That's why they're rare..they go BANG!). Had this rod been stored better and varnished just once it its life it might have been OK.

One can see de-lamination, as it is called, as the glue breaking up between the strips of cane, often with a black line where rotting has occurred. You might get it out with a razor blade in a small section and run modern glue in the gap, but it invariably means stripping the six pieces apart and starting again, after which it will need straightening again as well.

The last one I managed to mend, but the first two are from the damaged tip section......

You won't see many of those about...a hollowbuilt tip section


Now if I can just find a 70 inch replacement? Fat chance!

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Ouch! It's horrible when that happens.

 

[S-Kippy]

Sean

I restored a Wizard years ago [my first ever go] and proud though I was at the time I realise now I made a very average job of it. I fancy doing it again properly but where do I source the correct rings from ?

Skippy

 

[the indifferent crucian]

It depends what era Wizard it is S-Kippy, there are three distinct types, the painted Wallis Wizards from pre--war, the gold oval label Wizards from post-war and the pale green and black label rods after the merger with Lee.

From memory those last rods were only made for 2 years before the rod was dropped from the catalogues, but they might still have been in production as there are so many about.

Either way, getting the smaller rings is hard now as Hopkins and Holloway have dropped them from their range, but Chapmans have some sizes specially made for them.

Lined butt and tip rings are getting harder and harder to find now too and some people have resorted to buying up shabby old rods of no value just for the rings. It's usual to put high bells stand off rings on Wizards but they didn't have them in the early years.


The pictures on this blog show the original butt ring nicely, the sort of ring you'd find on a Hardy rod......but I think this is an early Super Wizard with fully lined rings ( the name Super came later)

The restoration begins… | Split Cane Fishing Rods


Wrong rings, too large, wrong silk.....

ROD: Fine Allcock Wallis Wizard cane river rod^...|Vintage Fishing Tackle|Mullock's Auctions

 

[S-Kippy]

Its a gold oval label....and I wish I'd kept the original rings.Those I used I now realise are totally wrong.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Mines an early gold label one with spiggoted ferrules and brass fittings. My mate Graham Stephens, who knows about such things, nearly had an orgasm when he saw it.

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View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

The butt section is pretty much original, but the rings have been replaced with high bells at some point. I'm about to start a restoration as one of the ferruls has developed a knock and the rings look a little tatty. I actually have some of the low bells that I think were originally on the rod, but as I want a user I'm using high bells on the restoration.

On difficulty is sourcing decent silk. I got some nice red stuff from Dave Pearce (thanks Dave!), but it's a bit too thick for a Wizard. H & H have sold out of the finer silks, but I've just ordered some 3/0 Fish Hawk from them to see what that looks like. I've actually no problems with using nylon thread, but silk is much easier to use on intermediate whippings as it doesn't stretch.

 

[George387]

Sean try here for your silk threads she does them in all diameters & is very helpful.
I was advised by a rod maker of the site as thats where he buys from. I bought the silks for my restoration rods over the winter and I also buy my silks for the float making from susan she is very helpful indeed.
Fishermen's Silks | Split-cane fishing rods | rod builders | whipping | flies for fly-fishing | rod restoration | rod building | Pipers Silks

 

[S-Kippy]

Oh Lordy...that's the one I've got ! Spigotted ferrules and brass fittings. Now I am going to have to do it properly.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Thanks George, already tried there, but can't get scarlet silk in the fine gauges.

Have you sorted out a 9ft cane rod yet? Just waiting for my snakes from H & H before doing up my Milwards Flycraft. I've got an old 9ft 6in Hexacane (probably late 30's) queuing for a makeover as well.

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Oh Lordy...that's the one I've got ! Spigotted ferrules and brass fittings. Now I am going to have to do it properly.

Just take a few deep breaths, plan carefully, buy the right stuff and you'll be fine!

I always find them a bit heavy in the hand so I'm considering a 24 inch handle on mine

 

[George387]

Have you sorted out a 9ft cane rod yet? Just waiting for my snakes from H & H before doing up my Milwards Flycraft. I've got an old 9ft 6in Hexacane (probably late 30's) queuing for a makeover as well.

Decided to take the yorkshire side of me away and put my hand deep into my pocket...lol and contacted Gary Marshall and have ordered a brand new 8'6" medium progressive taper rod, wont see it for 14 months due to construction but Ive got a couple of cane fly rods already so will use them through this season as I did last year. Im off to an auction in a couple of weeks at tennants so always find something there away from the madness of fleabay

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Ebay's fine for fly rods other than Hardy's. My Flycraft cost me £25 including postage. There's a nice Constable on there at the moment.

Having said that you're right in that local auctions don't have quite the level of interest that Ebay has.