Canoes

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Paul Kendall

Guest
I was fishing the River Sow in Staffs last Saturday - not an easy day, the river was up slightly, well coloured and it was bloody cold but I'd decided I could winkle a few Chub out of their holes.

I'd built up nice swim on a real narrow snaggy section with a depth of about 3 - 4 feet, the chub had just started to gain some confidence, I took one of 31/2 Lb and one just over 4 in quick succession (after baiting them out for about 2 hours).

Suddenly from around the corner appear 3 canoes piloted by 3 older persons (about 60 - 65) and the shout went up "coming through - mind your lines" - and through they came, friendly enough people except for the fact that they were shouting greetings and making so much bloody noise they scared off every self respecting chub in the whole river.

Now my question is this - Where I was fishing is private water, club controlled & on private land. Do these people have the right to canoe wherever they like or do they have to have permission from either the controlling club or landowner ?

Also - do they have to have a licence ?

I was tempted to put a 3oz lead through their fibreglass boom boxes but guessed that that wouldn't have helped the fish to return !
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
Tricky one. If it's a navigable river - and you'd be surtprised which rivers are - you haven't gor a leg to stand on.

If it's totally private, I wouldn't have thought they should be on there. Canoes have been blamed for disrupting spawning and so reducing fish pops on some of the Yorks rivers.
 
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Dave Johnson

Guest
Paul, I beleive that NO canoeists are allowed throught the Dove sections I fish.
Sow, not so sure, and I know how pissed off you would be at this-a swim killer!!!!
Maybe woirth talking to the Wildlife trust-they seem to be the 'inpowers' on the Sow.
Based at Coutts House as I am sure you know.
Me.....I would probably be in prison now......
 
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Steve Burke

Guest
According to the book "Angling Law", if the river is a navigable one there's little that can be done. As Chris pointed out it's surprising how many are navigable, and there's pressure for the number to increase. The book mentions all tidal waters plus much of major rivers such as the Severn, the Thames and the Trent, not to mention canals as being navigable.

It goes on to say that on other waters canoeists are tresspassing and can therefore be asked to leave. Whether or not they do so is of course sometimes a different matter!
 
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Dave O'L

Guest
Last winter I was fishing tidal Thames at Isleworth with the tide almost in. At this point it has to be 2 hundred yards wide at least as there is an off shoot with an island.
The rowers go out early morning & on this day I had a 'coach' in a bath tub powered by the oldest & noisiest 2 stroke, come up river, pull up & circle in my swim. To add insult to injury he then pulled out a megaphone that was so big I'm sure it could have had the walls of Jericho over. I did point out in a gentlemany fashion that if he stayed within 100 yards of his '8', he wouldn't need to strain his back holding such a collossal trumpet, & that he wouldn't have been hit amidships by a broadside of bread mash. It was an accident as the wind somehow caught & deflected the mix & it was made up with Nimble, honest officer!
 
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David Granger

Guest
its amazing how rivers change over the years,the part of the upper way were i live is
only a shallow one going on average between 6 in and 2ft,
but 800 or so years ago barges used to pass up and down it carrying stone
for waverly abbey ,the bottom was then between 4 and six feet deep ,so when the
word navigable is used ....navigable WHEN
 
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Kevan Farmer

Guest
I only know that on canals all boat users of whatever size must have some sort of license from British Waterways. Rivers however come under the remit of the EA. Check with the nearest office - phone number on your license.

Kevan
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
I thought that was only if the boat is permanently "afloat" - ie moored somewhere.
 
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Kevan Farmer

Guest
Chris. I may have read it wrong but that is how it seemed to me. I looked up the British Waterways homepage and 'navigated' - pardon the pun - to the rules and regulations bit some time ago. I was toying with the idea of getting a canoe myself - open type - to fish a disused canal. It seems that you need some form of license for whatever craft you are using, moored or not. But then they have got to catch you...

Kevan
 
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Alan Fawcett

Guest
Paul

If you check the history of the Sow (or Sowe as it was in Izaaks day) you will find that it was once a navigable river.

I don't know whether you know Stafford at all but the section of the Sow that runs past Tesco's is actually a man made canal.

If you walk around the side of Tesco's you'll see a small brook, this is where the Sow originally flowed.

In the past the land tesco's now stands on was a very large works which needed a lot of coal so the decision was made to dig a navigable channel from the confluence of the Penk/Sow at Tixal lane & put in a lock from the canal to the river.

If i can find them i have some pictures of "old" Stafford showing boats etc being used on the Sow.

I know this isn't really an answer to your question but i thought it might interest you (well sort of)

If you can let me know which part of the Sow you were fishing i can certainly find out if its a "boating/navigable" area.

I do know that area around Shugborough hall is one of the areas as is the stretch from Gt Bridgeford down to the M6 crossing as for the marshes i don't know about now but they used to allow it, perhaps Dave J can help on that one.??
 
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Dave Johnson

Guest
My mum and dad used to hire boats (punts) from behind Props wine bar in years gone by.
Also they could be hired from in front of the old 'brine baths' now the civic offices.
I know when you look at old pictures of the river it certainly looked a bigger river....even compared to nowadays with all this water around!!

As for canoeing, well I have done it ,with a mate, thats how I know the gravel bars and hot spots etc.....but in the closed season .
 
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John Howard

Guest
As an ex canoeist all canals req. a licence.Rivers.. only those designated as navigations has public access and then only if permission is obtained from the land owner or a public right of way exists at entry and exit points.As an example the Severn is classed as navigable from Pool Quay just outside Welshpool. The permission of land owners is required if access is wanted down a river.
The canoeing of rivers is predominately a winter sport it normally requires the river to be in flood to make it worth while.(excepting novices).The term used for canoeing a river without permission is a "Bandit run". Rivers like the Sow are to tame for most canoeists they prefer the upper reaches of spate rivers like the Dee and other Welsh rivers. I am not condoning there actions I have had swims devastated by illegal canoes to but attempting to explain the whys whats etc. John
 
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Paul Kendall

Guest
The stretch I was fishing is upstream from the Marshes at Great Bridgeford - about 1/2Mile downstream from Isaacs cottage, there is a pool, fed by a weir that used to be a mill pool and then slightly further down is a more modern weir.

What really got me was the fact that these canoeists weren't youngsters but were of pensionable age and should have known better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as EA licence holders don't we have the right to ask for evidence that other users of the water are also licence holders ?
 
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