Catch and release....

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Rob Brownfield

Guest
I will use this example to fuel my arguement.

A farmer would not kill all his pregnant sheep and then complain when there are no lambs in the spring.

Kill an egg laden salmon, and you are killing your future sport.

I have heard loads of talk about fish dying when put back etc, but I would like to see the proof before i make judgement. I had access to a private trout water where ALL fish were returned. I never saw a dead fish, and never saw the sport suffer. If any of u have seen fish grading machines on a fish farm, you will have seen just how tough trout and salmon are.

What do u guys think?
 
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Fergal Scully

Guest
With catch and release fish need to be handled with care. I have seen dying fish on catch and release fisheries but they were from poor handling or deep hooking. Just like pike angling everyone needs to be eduacated on catch and release.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
fergal, I agree with the poor handling statement. Unfortuantly, some of the worst fish handling I have seen has been on the banks of the River Don here in Aberdeenshire.

I hope one day that these great rivers return to there former glory.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
I'm all for catch and release if it's done properly. Many trout anglers need specific education in catch and release. Unfortunately there are very few articles in the magazines on how this should be done.
Maybe some editor out there is listening.
 
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Alan Roe

Guest
As a general principal I agree with catch and release and it has been my practise for many years.
I have always worked on the basis that I don't need a freezer full of corpses to show what a good angler I am!!.
BUT and here's the rub I equally do not want to see c&r turn into a religion in which all must follow. There has to be room for the occasional fish to grace the table.
As in all things common-sense needs to be the guiding principle and given the appropriate guidance most will act in a sensible manner.
The biggest problem area will be the commercial fishery sector where anglers still belive that their day ticket is equall to the sum of the bag limit. This thinking will take some shifting as for years some of the trout fishing media has tended to specialise in articles on 'How to get your limit'.
A further proliferation in c&r 'Sport Tickets'may go somewhere towards hepling this process combined with education.
The other problem lies within the current general understanding of the role of the rainbow trout which is regarded as a non native fast growing food fish with a short life span.
How you change that I will leave to the educators!!
Cheers
Alan
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Some fair comments there. Greed is an over riding factor of humans I am affraid. I have killed Sea trout and Rainbows/browns in the past, but I find myself becomming more alienated towards game fishing. There seems to be very little put back into the rivers in the way of conservation, and far to much *its the netsmens fault, the seals are killing the salmon, the otters are killing the parr*

People must face there responsibilities and stop reaping without sowing!!
 
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Dave Johnson

Guest
I have tended to fish sport tickets wherever possible as I really dont feel the need to get my 'moneys worth' with ?15 quids worth of trout in the boot of the car after a session. I think I have perhaps taken three or four fish in the last two seasons, one deep hooked and a couple for me nan.
Boat fishing is so much easier to c&r with barbless hooks, but you do have to rest the bigger fish after a good fight.
That aside, you can get a ready gutted trout from Sainsburys for just over a quid-if you like fish that much!
Yes it will also take some time for the culture to change towards releasing 'game fish', but I think on the whole, most of the fisheries around me do give the option.
And as for 'knocking a brownie'......
 

GrahamM

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I see no harm in taking the odd fish for the pot. It's those anglers who always take their limit to distribute around neighbours, etc, who abuse the right.

And I include all edible fish in that statement, not just game fish - zander, small pike, eels....... Any reasonably edible fish that is not considered a rare species.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Graham, what can I say!! I am a little suprised at the pike/zander statement. I would question the legality of removing fish from a commercial fishery for starters. But, on the otherhand, I guess taking livebaits or killing a Roach for bait is no different.

I abhore Pike being killed, but i guess thats because I have seen mass slaughters of Pike on Trout waters near me.

As for me, I prefer a nice piece of smoked Makerel
 
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Fergal Scully

Guest
I'm also all for the right to take the odd fish of non rare species for the table. At the end of the day mackeral is more of an endangered species than pike or zander. I'm all for conservation of pike but its the big pike of over ten pounds that really need preserving because they control the numbers of smaller pike. Killing a pike of say between 2 and 6 pounds is not going to damage a fishery. Its hypocritical to say that absolutely no pike or zander can be killed when the same anglers use mackeral and coarse deadbaits which are other anglers quarry. Its also worth pointing out that smelt are become rare in our estuaries now because of the market for pike bait.
 

GrahamM

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Rob wrote: "I would question the legality of removing fish from a commercial fishery for starters."

I'm not suggesting anyone does take a fish where the rules forbid you to do so. I'm just saying I see no harm in taking the odd fish.

For one thing it tells the anti's that we don't just fish for fun, and that is a powerful argument in the present climate.

I wonder how much better the fox hunters would have done if they ate the fox after the kill? If they could have argued that they didn't just do it for fun.

Think about it.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Graham, the problem i see is this. A majority of anglers, well, come to think of it, humans, are sensible, law abiding citizens. A minority are not. I know of cases near me were clubs have allowed "x" amount of Rainbows to be taken by there members, only to have several members blatently flaunt this rule, and in one case, to be found in possesion of 40+ fish when the limit was 2. I also recall a case on the Fens where an old guy was taking double figure pike for the pot, but not just the odd one, we are talking as many as he could get, and every one was landed with a gaff. This is not thats long ago.

Taking a fish for the pot is better than killing it and leaving it on the bank as happens here with Pike and Grayling, but I cannot, and will not kill a fish, but thats me. I will not stop you from doing what you do, its not my place to.

As for the statement on smelts, well, I personnally dont use them. I tend to use sea deadbaits that I buy from Tescos. Maybe this is hipocritical, I really dont know, but 99% of my angling is done with lures and flies. I reckon I dont get through more than 2 dozen baits a year.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
From my very early days of fishing, we often would take one for the pot especially if the fish was good to eat such as perch, eels, small pike or trout. In fact writers such as FJ Taylor **** Walker et al, all used to eat the odd coarse fish. Mr Crabtree used to take home the odd 1 lb perch as well as 7 ound pike to Patsy, (I often wonder who Patsy was?) In fact the eating of one's catch is one of the most basic reasons why we go fishing.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Ron, I am really sorry, but i believe your statement about *the eating of one's catch is one of the most basic reasons why we go fishing.* is not valid. 99% of coarse anglers do not eat any of there catch, and would never consider it. Game and sea anglers are another matter however.

I remember there being an outcry in Anglers Mail about a report of ethnic minorities eating roach from a canal in London. Thats not the actions of people who take fish for the pot.

Legally though, if you were to take a fish from a stocked water, that would be theft!!!!!
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Sorry Rob, but you are wrong. The eating of the catch is ONE the most basic of reasons why man goes fishing. There are many other reasons of course.
Could you also define for me as accurately as possible the difference beween "coarse" and "game" fishing.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Ron, each human has a right to his/her beliefs. I think we should agree to disagree on this one. However, if I ever saw you or any angler removing a coarse fish from a water I fish, I would be duty bound to report you to the police.

As for the difference between coarse and game...well, to be brutally honest, I would say it was money and influence. But, i would also say that game angling is set up for the catch to be eaten, whilst coarse angling is for the enjoyment of angling.

Who defines coarse and game anyway? What catergry does the Grayling come under for instance. Its not to do with the Adipose fin as most salmon anglers believe, as fish such as the Asp have this and thats certainly not game.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
I don't think you would ever see me remove a "coarse" fish in England as quite simply I do not do it.

Your explanation of the difference between coarse and game makes no sense at all. Personally, my belief is that the definition is clouded in English Folklore, snobbery and ritual. In America they make little, if any reference to coarse and game angling. In South Africa, we called all hard fighting river species including Yellowish and to some extent catfish - gamefish, mainly because they could be caught on an artificial lure or fly.

Personally I hate the classification of fishes into game and coarse. Some so called coarse fish, ie zander and perch taste a darned sight better than trout.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
I am confused. U have just repeated what I said, but say u do not understand. Game fish are game fish because of snobbery, i.e, money and influence. I see no difference between any fish, but game anglers would insist that a fish was not worthy if it did not posses an Adipose Fin.

Game fish abroad however have an entirely different meaning. Pike are gamefish in Canada for examble, so are Marlin, Wahoo, Barraccuda etc etc.

I dont care what it is, as long as it takes some skill to catch, and gives me a fight, its game to me!!!...hence the reason i dont fish for rainbows!!
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Rob, I think it would be nice if you could explain why you do not fish for rainbows. Do I detect some form of snobbery here?
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
I do not fish for rainbows as I consider them a stupid, easy to catch fish. Simple as that.

I am ONLY talking of put and take fishery rainbows in MY AREA by the way. I used to be a syndicate member of a club that had a loch with *wild* rainbows that was purely catch and release, and they were better to catch as u had to use small, immative patterns. Stick a lure in the water and they were off!

There is absolutely no snobbery at all from my side. I do not regard a Rainbow with little or no finage that has been in a small loch for several hours as a worthy prize. Sorry. I cannot comment about the big reservoirs down south, as i have not fished them. I used to fish most weekends for Rainbows, and u could put virtually any fly on and catch. I handicapped myself by only fishing Dries or Nymphs, and even then I still caught (and released) my limit in a very short time. It also bemused me when someone hooked a fish...the cry always went out..*ohhh, its a big one*...as yet, another 1 pounder ended up on the bank. I hate fishing when I know that all my fish are going to be the same size, this includes coarse fishing too.

Each to there own, but there is very much a trend up here of good anglers moving away from the stockie bashing and concentrating on the rivers or more *natural* lochs. I am glad I am not the only one with this *snobbery* as u out it.

By the way, the River Tay contains THE best rainbow fishing in britain. Now they are fin perfect, *wild*, some are sea run (steelheads)and they have the power of an express train! Now they are worthy prizes!
 
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