Chub and the future

[silvers]

This one is primarily aimed at Whitty ... but I'd welcome other observations from around the country!

I'll start at the end: having not caught a chub between 2 oz and 3 pounds plus on the Great Ouse in about 25 years (yes - really!! well maybe one or two ...) I've had two match catches with several around the pound mark this year. Back in January at Kempston, then this last weekend at Willington (so either side of Bedford).
Are these signs of a chub revival?

When I started fishing more seriously, early 80s on the Great Ouse, Ole Rubber Lips was the staple ... by the mid 80s the stamp was between 1.8 and 2 pounds .... and they just kept on growing. Over the years larger but fewer fish. Some years lots of tiny fry, but no real succession of "barrels" and "pups". By the mid 90s it was big chub or bust (especially in the winter).
According to google ... life expectancy is 22 years - I reckon some of the Ouse fish could be even older than that (given lack of succession evidence).

Anyway - from my matchfishing point of view
a) I've seen the same pattern on many midlands rivers (Thames, Warks Avon, Severn, Trent, even the Wye)
b) it's not great for long term sustainability of chub as a target species.

have any of you observed similar?

 

[barbelboi]

Not sure which part of the Gt Ouse you fish but there are plenty of chub to the stretches that i fish - the thing is I don't fish it too often as it's a 20 minute drive and I have better river/stream fishing on my doorstep which are teaming with chub of all sizes from little finger size to 6lb+ (probably bigger but not caught by me).

 

[silvers]

Hiya Barbelboi

I grew up in Odell and fish it (infrequently now) from Newport Pagnell down to Bedford.
It's not just the Ouse though, barring a handful of stretches all of those rivers I've named seem to have followed the same pattern (maybe just the match fishing stretches that I fish?)

 

[barbelboi]

Possibly the main difference then is that I tend to fish where, in most cases, no one else fishes....

To give you an example a couple of weeks ago I fished (which was) a shallow gravel dace swim where a back water meets the main river that I hadn't fished for over a year. Whereas before I'd take some 30-40 dace in a three hour session on the stick, along with a couple of chub and the odd roach and perch this has now changed. The stretch is alive with chublets (8-14 oz (ish)) along with some larger chub and in some 3 hours took some 40-50+chublets to around 15 dace.

 

[nottskev]

I love fishing for chub, and I thought I'd be catching plenty when I moved down to Nottingham. But aside from some big old chub that get caught in darkness by dedicated anglers, they're largely absent. The Trent nearby is teeming with roach,dace and perch, but I last caught a chub, summer chublets aside, about 10 years ago. There are some chub hotspots here and there, but the fish are not widespread. The lower Derwent was a match fishing mecca once, with huge numbers of chub ( and roach,too) but all I can catch from it now are grayling and a few small dace. I used to go over to the Dove quite often, but after a run of visits where only grayling and trout were caught, I gave up on it. In the winter, I've ended up in recent years fishing little tributaries, brooks and ditches in order to catch the odd chub here and there. Oddly, they seem to support chub where the main rivers don't. This is great fun, but you're only likely to catch one from a swim, and there might only be a swim that might hold one every hundred yards. It's good to hear some people find them in abundance locally. I'd be happy to see some more around here, and wonder why they've declined so markedly.

 

[GT56]

Fish numbers dropping in River Trent and River Dove, anglers say - Derbyshire Live

You might find this interesting, certainly made think it wasn't just me.
A seemingly very knowledgeable guy I met on the bank recently said he believed Chub grow to a size when they can be come the fish of choice for Cormorants.
Well I think there could be may explanation to this mystery but in the interim I'm all for blaming them dreaded birds.

 

[rob48]

Only chub I've been catching on the upper Trent for the last few seasons have been fish up to 4-6 oz or over 3lb. Never seen so many jacks and very big perch in the river. Similar on the Avon around Stratford but there are a few 2lbers about.

 

[sam vimes]

I think that many rivers are in a similar boat, and not just for chub, barbel are certainly similar. Dwindling numbers of bigger fish, varying numbers of small fish (not that anglers generally see small barbel), until they get to a certain size, which then seem to disappear.

Exactly how a river appears seems to depend on where a particular river is on this kind of cycle. Heaven help any river that has absolutely nothing coming through the middling sizes to replace the ageing big fish. If that happens, you end up with the reported disaster that the Great Ouse has been for barbel.

For whatever reasons, natural recruitment in rivers seems to be very hit and miss, and mostly miss. Many rivers seem to have multiple year classes of fish entirely missing. Whilst this was, to an extent, ever thus, I've never seen it quite so obvious in so many rivers.

 

[no-one in particular]

Chub are a bit of mystery to me. A mate and I fished one river about 20 years ago on a regular basis. We caught lots of chub up to a lb. We were looking forward to them getting bigger, and then they just disappeared. I have not caught a chub in the last two or three years and in ever-decreasing numbers before that. It’s not pollution, I am fairly sure of that, would have heard about it.
The other thing with chub, for quite a few years now there seems to have been a lot of chub lets about, I see them every year in another river I fish and often reported in the HDYGO thread and everyone states looks good for the future of chub fishing, but it doesn’t seem to be the case or, at least it doesn’t seem to be.
I think the comment about cormorants could be something to do with it and you could add otters as well, or at least part of the reason but I only have cormarants here, no otters yet.
Also, tench have disappeared from the river, used to catch a few but, not for the last 10 years or so, Roach and Bream seem to be doing OKish and I caught a carp in it a few weeks ago so, it’s not a general across all species thing.

 

[103841]

Reading these posts makes me realise how lucky I am to have a few decent chub in my local Stour, however, they are under threat with fish traps and long lines being used recently by a group of EE’s. The river needs more anglers fishing (legally) to police the stretch.

I have a few maggots in the fridge, think I’ll pop along there for an hour or two.

 

[Neil Maidment]

The lower reaches of the Dorset Stour (from Wimborne down to the harbour) and the Hampshire Avon (from Ringwood down to the same harbour) are heaving with chub from a few ounces to 1lb/2lbs. Certain stretches within those many miles also have their fair share of 3lbs, 4lbs, 5lbs and a good scattering of 6's and occasional 7. The odd 8 is also to be found for those who really put the effort in.

For me, as far as chub fishing is concerned, both rivers are now coming into their prime time. The September rains and floods have been very welcome and can only enhance the prospects for the coming months. Both rivers were exposing their bare bones in Sept into Oct last year, not so this year.

 

[103841]

A rather nice chub video.

YouTube

 

[Mark Wintle]

In the past chub have been prone to dominant year classes. On the Dorset Stour the two years that stood out were 1959 and 1975 which were hot summers followed by dry winters. In the late 70s the chub were either small ones from 75 the last remaining ones from 59, by then fish of around 4lb. Since then with the cessation of the frequent dredging of the 60s and 70s it's become more complex and the chub spawn successfully more often. The middle Stour from Wimborne to above Blandford seems to have very few chub now though but there are the odd monsters. One stretch I fish on the upper Stour has lots of little ones in summer; I fish a bit of flake and catch up to 40 chub from half an ounce to about a pound but come winter the small ones disappear and the one that show are from about a pound to an occasional 4lber, with most, on a good day, around 2 to 3lbs.

On the Thames at Godstow there was similar year class dominance but chub numbers seem down on what they were, possibly due to signal crayfish taking spawn.

 

[no-one in particular]

On the Thames at Godstow there was similar year class dominance but chub numbers seem down on what they were, possibly due to signal crayfish taking spawn.

Hadn't thought of that Mark and add cormarant and otters. Chub would be an ideal size meal for them I imagine and not the quickest of fish either and a lot might be taken.

 

[bullet]

My local spot seems to have plenty of 1 to 2lb fish at the moment.
Usually just full of Chublets this time of year.

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Is there the tinniest bit of danger here of attributing predation as the problem based on nothing other than diminished catch returns?

So I was fishing a few weeks back on a small thames tributary/ stream. I was surprised to find another angler on one of my regular spots where I do a little bit of dropshotting for perch. I asked him how he was getting on and long story short he wasn't doing very well, and set about a long monologue about how this stream was utterly devoid of fish whereas once he'd catch 8 or 10 big chub and as many barbel on a good day and what with the otters, cormorants etc there was NOTHING worth catching left in this stream and really he didn't know why he bothered any more (proper ray of sunshine!)

Now, I realise that the stream in question might not be as prolific as it once was... however, in reaching the spot where he was at, i'd had to walk over a bridge from which i'd always observe a very handsome group of chub directly below. (They melt out of sight as soon as they perceive you hanging over the bridge but most days they're there). Sometimes as many as 7 or 8 fish, all over 4lbs and some considerably bigger.

I've tended to find with larger chub (apart from on the wye, which I think is a bit of a one off in terms of its larger fish population) that the bigger they get, the more solitary they become. So those times when you see a large population of 4 to 5 pound fish that will queue up all day in the same swim, that's the exception and not the rule. But we experience that (somewhat freakish) population at some point and then question why it's not there when that group does not get replaced.

(it's a bit like the Man Utd academy. You get Giggs, Beckham, Scholes etc all coming through in a rush - and then spend the next 20 years wondering why you're not winning anything! Ha, sorry, plastic scouser, couldn't resist! YNWA x)

 

[theartist]

Reading these posts makes me realise how lucky I am to have a few decent chub in my local Stour, however, they are under threat with fish traps and long lines being used recently by a group of EE’s. The river needs more anglers fishing (legally) to police the stretch.

I have a few maggots in the fridge, think I’ll pop along there for an hour or two.

This is a river which sums up what chub are facing in urban stretches and I hate to say it but I think it's going to go downhill for you there. There will be the odd big one left and a seemingly inexplicable amount of chublets then numbers will only return in hard to reach overgrown areas but never at the widespread levels they once were.

I'll leave you guys to argue about what causes this but I've seen this locally on free stretches of the
Gade
Colne
Gt Ouse
Ash
Bourne
Loddon
Kennet
Ember
Mole
Ivel
Fray's
Beane
Wey
Blackwater
Chelmer

And they are just a few rivers I could name off the top of my old headski, sure there's still some hidden gems out there that remind you of how these rivers once were in your memories, but sadly far too many are just that

Chub fishing has a future it just depends where, be grateful if you have a good population of rubberdubs as that means a healthy river

 

[108831]

I believe there are quite a few chublets on the Ouse this year,I've actually watched shoals of thirty to forty fish around Bedford,I think it's been too long for cycles to be blamed however,lack of good spawning grounds,water quality,predation of all sorts go to make it difficult for species which live on what is a relatively small river above Bedford,however around eight years ago I re-joined Vauxhall and fished the float below the notice board swim and caught around thirty 3-6oz chublets,I fished Pavenham last year and caught a couple of 2lb chub,so some fish are creeping through and looking back a lifetime ago,I can remember when chub were only caught on cheese and even then we're scarce at Radwell and localised,then all of a sudden all you could catch was three inch chublets,everywhere,that brought the golden years of chub fishing on Vauxhalls waters,I don't believe low rivers in the months after spawning help the Ouse,leaving a stale river with little flow or clean gravel to make a living off of...

 

[benny samways]

Just to add that I think of all the species on the Great Ouse the chub is probably best equipped to adapt and survive.

Big young fish coming through aswell as older dogs hanging on in there.

2lbers and 3lbers are there to be caught once you’ve missed a bite from a six or a seven!

 

[theartist]

We shouldn't think that loads of chublets are a sign of the river ever coming 'back' Its probably a case of decent recruitment from a decimated population of breeding fish , these chublets are thriving perhaps down to there being much less perch and pike about?

Remember on many if not all of these rivers we are mentioning we used to get catch at least six mature chub in every swim back in the day before moving to the next and repeating it, the banker swims would have 100lb of them swimming about even on little streams. The 'day' of course being decades of consistent chub sport on these rivers.

I have no doubt that we've grown accustomed to settling for less, I know I have