Conservation Corner

LPP

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Crikey JB, I can feel the anger flowing through the keyboards!

An interesting little webinar was hosted recently : "Rewilding rivers". (That is the rivers Wye and Mole...) re-introduction of beavers............

I intended to listen in but am about as tolerant as JB here, and maybe a little less polite! This may have been incredibly informative and even useful, I just couldn't risk 2 hours myself..
l
If interested, follow the link

"Thank you to those of you who attended the Surrey River Catchments Webinar yesterday. We hope you found it interesting and informative. If you were unable to attend but would like to watch the recording please use the link below.

Webinar recording: https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/_...jVkFoMQpRUwRbIyriiOCmwvpaIAG.WIk3xCa21CrceQTo "
 

no-one in particular

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And yet they don't spend "our" money when it is something important. When the EA put in a modern sluice gate in a river near me by the sea end they didn't go to the expense of building in a fish pass for the Mullet and other migratory fish to pass through.
 

mikench

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It's called corruption and ineptitude and until politicians and officials in NGO's ( whatever they are) can be held accountable for their frolics and expensive and ill considered policies we, the tax payers, will continue to foot the bill and those in power will reap financial reward for their profligacy either in office or within months of being sacked. Just look at the names we can associate with terrible decisions taken after years of discussion and argument and often pursued because of one political belief only to be axed because of another. I could write a litany of such events from the NHS, the Railways to Aircraft carriers and track and trace systems to name but 4. .

Is it any wonder we despair. The trouble is whoever you vote for the government always gets in.
 

LPP

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Surrey Rivers Catchments - I did listen for a minute:

"we need to build more evidence"

nice little picture of a beaver, (on the Wey at Haslemere soon.....................................)
 

no-one in particular

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Forget about beavers, they are a fact of life, they are just kidding us they have some sort of control or ever had and was always going to be thus. From day one this was what they were going to do, release them in the wild, they never had any intention of doing anything else, the rest of it was just a smokescreen.
Now our native flora and fauna will just have to learn to cope with another "new" introduced species" without the natural time it would normally take. I wonder how long it will be before angling is banned within a mile of where they have set up home! I give it 5 years maximum.
 
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LPP

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Forget about beavers, they are a fact of life, they are just kidding us they have some sort of control or ever had and was always going to be thus. From day one this was what they were going to do, release them in the wild, they never had any intention of doing anything else, the rest of it was just a smokescreen.
Now our native flora and fauna will just have to learn to cope with another "new" introduced species" without the natural time it would normally take. I wonder how long it will be before angling is banned within a mile of where they have set up home! I give it 5 years maximum.

Absolutely spot on, though I doubt it will take 5 years.
There was a mention of fish, a question regarding "Non-native" fish. These people soon catch on to the wonderful "information" spread by their like..

.......was interested to read of the £120,000 for 3.5km of fencing though...wonder what the salaries of these inspired "conservationists" totals??
 

steve2

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Absolutely spot on, though I doubt it will take 5 years.
There was a mention of fish, a question regarding "Non-native" fish. These people soon catch on to the wonderful "information" spread by their like..

.......was interested to read of the £120,000 for 3.5km of fencing though...wonder what the salaries of these inspired "conservationists" totals??
What are non-native fish? Barbel are not native to many English rivers and are only there through legal /illegal stocking. When barbel were wiped out on my local river we not able to restock due to the fact it had no history of being a natural barbel river.
 

108831

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Carp were virtually non-existent in the sixties,most lakes didn't have a one,now tench waters are fewer because clubs spend money stocking carp,catfish are in virtually every county,when I started they were in a handful of Bedfordshire stillwaters,zander are widespread,as has been said,what are these non-native species?
 

LPP

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What are non-native fish?
Seems the environmental boffins would refer to burbot and sturgeon as being native?

If they keep gathering funds to re-wild we may have an interesting day soon when we watch beavers taking cormorants down before being devoured by huge sturgeon!

I worry more for the fish we see struggling, and that list is pretty extensive.
 

John Bailey

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Conservation Corner: The Barbel Society’s Otter Petition

Some of you will have heard of the Barbel Society’s recent petition to remove otters from this country’s protected species list. What not all of you will know is that it has caused a major rift between the BS and the Angling Trust, a rift that has been simmering for some while now. For all of us who do not fish exclusively for stocked fish behind otter fences, this is an important question. But where do we all stand, both the experienced anglers at Thomas Turner and indeed you, anglers of wisdom and careful consideration? It is in many ways a tough one.

It has to be a shame that these two organisations are at loggerheads over this. Both the AT and the BS have shown great energy and positivity over the last years, and both show a commendable desire to get things done. In angling, most of us agree we need all this energy to be concerted, not diverted, and that we should be speaking on all the big issues of the day with one voice. This is patently not the case here, and the cliche 'irresistible force and immovable object' springs to mind.

Let’s be quite clear that otters do eat fish, especially non-native fish in smaller, shallower habitats. Older, weakened specimens are especially vulnerable, as are all fish in the coldest of winter weathers. The BS is also possibly correct that England, at least, possibly has a greater otter density than for some time, following widespread releases late last century, and the cessation of hunting over the last decades.

The AT counters that this petition stands no chance of persuading MPs to sanction otter controls, however many anglers sign it. It also contends that initiating it runs a real risk of alienating us from a general public that is lukewarm towards our sport anyway. Furthermore, the AT is adamant that there is no silver bullet when it comes to better fish stocks, in our rivers notably. In their eyes, the way forward is to fight pollution, abstraction, and riverine desecration in all its guises.

A rational but cautious approach would be to back the AT here. After all, throughout the fishing – in time of Covid negotiations – it has proved that it does have the ear of government. However, are we ever going to win public opinion as anglers? Conservationists habitually regard fish as the creatures of least concern, and this disdain is reflected on a weekly basis throughout every arm of the media. Many members of the public know everything about meerkats, but couldn’t tell a trout from a tench.

This indisputable fish-unfriendly stance is one reason that nothing of any real use has been done to improve stocks of naturally-bred fish of all species, into any rivers, over the last thirty or forty years. River anglers of all disciplines in most areas are tired of seeing nothing done to bring fish back, and ask quite naturally when anything positive will ever get done. There is barely a river angler of experience who cannot name endless useless schemes initiated by the statutory bodies that have made no positive impact on stock levels whatsoever.

Surely the fact is that if our rivers held the stocks of fish that they should hold, then the impact of otters would be acceptable to all of us. If rivers like the Ouse, the Teme, and the Wensum held a decent head of barbel, then both otters and the Society in question would happily coexist. The real crisis is that we have never had so many fishery scientists working in this country, and that we have never had so few natural river fish, be they salmon, roach or minnows. If the AT and the BS could come together to sort this situation out, we’d be delighted to see our river fish restored to healthy numbers. Otters or not.
 

108831

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The biggest issues are that otters have returned at a similar time as peak crayfish numbers,siltation of spawning redds on rivers like the Ouse and Ivel,leaving cormorants to dine on any smaller survivors during winter months,at this late stage controlling otters is unlikely to bring back the ghosts of long dead fish,the rivers are now reverting to roach waters once more,as they can spawn in large numbers guaranteeing a population of sorts....sadly it seems that my wonderful barbel fishing pre 2012 was just a cyclical blip in the life of a river...
 

The Sogster

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I think the BS petition lead by Steve Pope is not what angling needs currently. The petition is badly worded and disingenuous at best.
It calls for the removal of the otters protected status but fails to say why. This is a call for a cull in disguise.

I wonder if this petition has been posted on non angling forum websites such as the RSPB (otters eat cuddly waterfowl chicks), canal and river trust etc, and what their member response is. But I suspect not because they don't have the BS ear.

I know that one of the most popular websites for barbel in the UK found the need to hide discussion of this topic in fear of non/ anti anglers accidentally stumbling on the thread and reading the comments.

The Angling Trust in my opinion are right to condemn this petition.
We are experiencing a massive influx of new and returning anglers. Many of whom are seeing flora and fauna in their natural environment (as experienced by them) for the first time. Why would they want to change what they see as a natural environment in their new hobby.
 

108831

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I believe the BS have come over like a child having a tantrum(and has done for years)and whilst it is right to show annoyance individually to the demise of your species of choice on several rivers,an organisation such as this needs to be far more forward thinking and try a more softly,softly approach,also several rivers in the UK have had otter populations since the year dot,yet still have healthy barbel populations,which leads me to think that otters are just a small part of a major issue on rivers like the Ouse and Ivel and having seen the programme last week about regular illegal sewage discharges may have a hell of a lot to do with it...
 

John Aston

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I have read the petition . It is ill conceived , poorly written and reflects badly on the BS and the wider angling community. I assume the creators of the petition do not keep up with current affairs - if they did they might realise just how absurdly unrealistic it was to expect the government even to consider control of a creature which enjoys such popularity with the general public. Has the BS not been reading the news about objections to the badger cull ? Or can't they read at all?
 

theartist

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I originally thought the otter petition was a good idea, If a river is in decline regarding mature fish stocks it nearly always seems to coincide with otters. I don't buy the argument that 'our river has always had otters and it's been fine' That doesn't mean another river wont get their larger fish species destroyed by them, all rivers are different.

However a legal cull is not going to happen and as others have said is not a good image to portray applying for one
 

108831

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But what should happen in normal,self regulating rivers is the bigger slower fish would be predated,leaving younger quicker smaller barbel(and other species)more able to avoid heavy predation,as recruitment seems at low levels we just highlight it as our brood stock dwindles away...
 

Peter Jacobs

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This is the second time that the people at BS have started a petition regarding Otters.
The first time they managed to cobble together 12,000 signatures and that by using family e-mail addresses as well as using social media to try to drum up support.

Sadly that lesson has not prevented the same people from trying again . . . . with another poorly worded attempt designed to get their own members agitated, again. They really are not the sharpest knives in the drawer . . . .

The first time around Mr Pope came on here to FM asking for support and rightly so was roundly criticised to the point where he threw tantrum and flounced off of our site . . . . .

Now the same two people are back again with another attempt to put angling in a bad light with the general public . . . . . petitions like these only do harm to fishing in general.

This is one of those occasions where I would side with the Angling Trust. Personally I wish that Otters had never been reintroduced into our rivers, and definitely not in the haphazard way it was done. That said they are here, and here to stay, so we have to find the best way to mitigate any resulting damage as well as not support these daft petitions.
 
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john step

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I read somewhere else that the RSPB are spending a lot of dosh fencing off areas where they are trying to establish nesting sites. (Tongue in cheek this next bit) Perhaps we should let the RSPB bring the otter question up when they have eaten all the eggs/chicks of rare birds and let them take the flak.
 

LPP

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Personally, I enjoyed seeing occasional otters and actually still do. Certainly would prefer to see less but they clearly not going to be culled through sanction and the daft BS. As has already been written earlier and a point I believe most relevant is the lack of younger fish coming through and the causes of that. I support the AT and in discovered I had 2 memberships until picked up by the AT themselves. Water quality and predation are huge challenges and which can be continually fought by the AT with our support.
by the way, there are still a few packs of Mink Hounds around doing stirling work!
 
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