Dam Tourists -no beaver content ; wild fishing and snobbery

rayner

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I can see no reason to moan about beavers or any other rewilded species for that matter. Those that do the rewilding do not do it on a whim. Surely there has been a great deal of scientific reasoning before any animals have been released/rehomed in the wild.
I do not care what or who goes where, anglers who want the waters to themselves are on to a loser and why should it be any different. We just do not come into the argument if indeed there is an argument.
I have never as you say put anything back into the sport, I just could not even if I wanted to. Far too busy thinking about earning money. I do not feel guilty I can not see why I should in a similar way I will never join the Angling Trust. They just do not come into my thinking at all.
 

John Aston

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Fine - your choice . But do you think angling needs a voice? And , if you do, who do you think it should be ? If you don't , what is your plan to resist ant angling legislation and fight for the interest of the sport ? I don't need a moan about the Trust , you've made your feeling clear, but I am genuinely curious about what steps , if any , you think angling needs to take to protect its future .
 

rayner

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Sorry to maybe hurt your feelings before I go further. I do not think angling needs a voice. I have managed for very nearly 60 years with no help apart from assistance from my wife since July 2000 to be able to fish, very grateful I am to my beautiful wife too.
If as you say angling needs a voice then pick whoever you feel could do the job.
I am well past the time of worrying if angling as a future or not I can't see myself being able to fish much longer I will though as long as I can.
As for a plan to resist anti anglers, I have no interest in resisting anything so truthfully I do not care. I do think anglers are afraid of the antis, if the so-called antis had any chance of stopping us fish they would have stood behind their colours. At least made a bit of noise if there are any, where are they.
You may not need to hear a moan about the A Trust, on occasion I do moan, on an open public forum if I need to moan I will.
PETA tried it on in America and failed that is exactly why they are here. There is a lot of money in angling not so much here as in America, I'm sure we have enough here to make them back off without my input.
 

John Aston

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You don't hurt my feelings - bloody hell I'd be thin skinned if you did - but I couldn't disagree with you more. I've fished for just as long as you but I don't share your complacency that all will be well and angling will just bumble along under the radar of public scrutiny . So did fox hunting, for generations , so did upland grouse shooting and commercial pheasant shoots but the first is illegal and the others are under serious threat .

But consider too that lead shot was banned at a stroke in the nineties . At least it was for angling , which had no political voice then. But for shooting - lead is still used (except in wildfowling ) despite the fact that every shell will contain more shot than we use in several sessions. Why the inconsistency ? Strong lobbying in the right places from a professionally organised representative body .

Anglers will protest , naively ,that fishing isn't a blood sport . And expect the public to believe them . From a sport whose essence is impaling fish on hooks . Good luck with that
 

Peter Jacobs

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I would agree that anging needs a strong political voice, however I don't think that the Angling Trust can be that voice all the while it is taking money from the EA, who let's be honest could easily be considered as anging's worst potetial enemy . . . . Even though the amount was reduced (in line with the agreement) to £1.13 millions in 2020 it still forms the vast majority of the Trust's revenue stream.
 

nottskev

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Strong lobbying in the right places from a professionally organised representative body .

Absolutely, since that's the norm for other interest groups competing for attention and influence.

One of the leading campaigners in the run-up to the lead shot ban came from the city I was living in at the time. Generally regarded as The Mad Swan Woman, her publicity, sentimental about swans and unreasonably aggressive towards anglers, nonetheless fed into the ban. It was not diluted, apparently, by the facts that anglers do not shoot quantities of shot into the environment, nor were there many anglers on her local river, as it barely contained fish at the time. Not long after the ban, in an unrelated but ironic postscript, I was reading articles about the destruction of small waterways by gangs of teenage swan hooligans - a series of warm winters meant far more survived than some waters could support . Meanwhile we were trying to squeeze expensive pieces of hard metal and a range of useless substitutes on our line.

The hooks in the mouth business......... It can't be denied, and it's not a PR gift for angling. We do need a good, positive story about angling. What that story might be is elusive and incoherent, and will be as long as we anglers continue to argue with each other more strongly that we represent our sport/pastime to the non-anglers. In fishing, the Judean Popular Front are still locked in dispute with the People's Judean Front. Meanwhile, I notice more and more waters controlled by local authorities being designated Conservation Areas, and fishing excluded. At the same time, despite a tendency in some quarters to throw a little hissy fit about liberal leftie urban do-gooders, research and understanding of "sentience" is only going in one direction: extending and deepening our insights into the unexpected and hitherto ignored depths of awareness, intelligence, communication etc etc of what we used to think of as dumb animals and creatures of the lower orders.

A positive story about angling has to be able to face any uncomfortable truths and still assert that overall it a good thing. I can't honestly claim my catching individual fish in no way stresses them, damages them or spoils their afternoon, but there are good arguments why the activity is good for fish in general, tends towards valued and cared for water environments and, compared to many people's idea of fun, is highly positive for people and society.

This post is going on, even by my standards, but here's a comparison based on angling, politics, conservation etc in neighbouring cities. I live in one where fishing on council owned waters is banned as incompatible with conservation values. There are angling clubs, but the focus is inward, and old school, nothing much goes on, and waters are what they are. Council ones are visibly unkempt and left to their own devices. In the city next door, an angling club partners the council in managing and developing the waters. Park lakes have been transformed in all terms, fishing and environmental, with water treatments, plantings, tree prunings, margin clearing etc all based on fishery expert input. The club's river stretches are among the best I've ever seen, in terms of litter-picking, access, sensitive clearing of swims etc. The club is high profile, supports charities, organises teach-ins for youngsters and family/community events, with voluntary input from members and great communication. They have made themselves popular and thought of as a force for good on all levels.
 
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rayner

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You don't hurt my feelings - bloody hell I'd be thin skinned if you did - but I couldn't disagree with you more. I've fished for just as long as you but I don't share your complacency that all will be well and angling will just bumble along under the radar of public scrutiny . So did fox hunting, for generations , so did upland grouse shooting and commercial pheasant shoots but the first is illegal and the others are under serious threat .

But consider too that lead shot was banned at a stroke in the nineties . At least it was for angling , which had no political voice then. But for shooting - lead is still used (except in wildfowling ) despite the fact that every shell will contain more shot than we use in several sessions. Why the inconsistency ? Strong lobbying in the right places from a professionally organised representative body .

Anglers will protest , naively ,that fishing isn't a blood sport . And expect the public to believe them . From a sport whose essence is impaling fish on hooks . Good luck with that
As you can see from me quoting your post I have read it. I can really see your point I still can see no reason why I should join the trust. If you think my getting involved would make a difference I can not help that I just can not see my involvement making any difference. I am certainly not wanting to alienate myself from other anglers. I have far more important things to concern me than joining a group or club or even an association. Truthfully I wish you and the other members well I just do not feel strong enough about anything including the AT.
 
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