Dirty old rivers

[steve2]

I have seen many news reports on wet wipes but no one takes any notice of them. It is a case of stick it down the toilet and flush it then becomes some one else’s problem not yours.
Storm discharges are use to the solve a problem on the cheap.

 

[nottskev]

Some rivers have revived from a history of industrial pollution, and that's great. But others continue to suffer agricultural and sewage pollution. Pollution of rivers in northern industrial regions was obvious. Pollution of rivers in more rural settings is insidious and relatively few people are aware of it as rivers largely continue to look and smell ok. I'm pleased to see the transformed Mersey and tributaries and so on - but without going far from home I can point to three rivers running through rural landscapes which are shadows of their former selves in terms of fishing - the Dove, Derwent and Soar. The transformation of the Mersey etc was largely a fringe benefit of de-industrialisation, almost a lucky accident. Current pollution concerns centre on the failure to invest in and legislate on environmental protection. As far as I'm concerned, the more we and others complain about it, the better.

 

[nottskev]

I'd just sent that post when I bumped into this. Some interesting detail, including on the plastics being found now in the "transformed" Irwell, once you get down the page. I'm happy that river pollution is as high up the political agenda as it is.

MPs call for bathing rivers across England as part of anti-pollution drive

Water companies should each designate one area as fit for use by 2025, says environmental audit committee in highly critical report

www.theguardian.com

 

[fishface1]

I heard on Tuesday that I believe 65 tonnes of raw sewage was released into the Gt.Ouse at Bedford last week(no wonder I never had a bite Monday)


It’s probably worth giving these numbers a bit of context. 65 tonnes is a large number. Approx 65,000 litres.

Although it is “raw” sewage, it would mostly be rain water in such events, not straight from the pan….

The river would also be up and depending on where it is on the Gt Ouse, would be flowing at multiple Cumecs (1000litres a second) so the dilution would be huge and in reality the impact of the discharge (in pure organic terms) would be minimal. Sewage derived litter is different and requires further education of the “great” British public.

The problem is when they discharge out side of rainfall events due to overpopulation in creaking sewerage systems, or failures to invest in infrastructure.

 

[steve2]

On two of the streams I fish it as been reported that if you shut down the sewer farms the flow would cease. Due to over abstraction it is the only thing that keeps these 2 streams topped up. So it not just pollution killing rivers.

 

[fishface1]

Yes, the upper catchment of a number of urban rivers will be predominantly treated sewage.

You only need to look at catches on the Blackwater in Hampshire and the Wandle in London to see that fish can actually thrive in treated sewage. Unfortunately, it also means they are subject to all too frequent fish kills.

 

[The bad one]

Sorry guys we are past the zenith of rivers getting cleaner that came around 1990 and on the downward slope to the good bad old days of the 40s 50s. There was someone on here years ago who banged on about dirty rivers were great for fish and fishing. It's those sorts of comments that has held angling back from seriously tackling the problems that are killing the rivers.
What really annoys me re the most stating the bleeding obvious report this morning is, The River Trusts were doing all the shouting. Why them is the question I’d ask? Where was the principle users voices Angling?
Seems to me the Angling Trust has gone missing in Action AGAIN!

As for the EA they are not fit for purpose and haven't been for over 10 year now.

 

[steve2]

I still look on the AT as a group that organises matches and not much else. Majority of anglers are still seen and rightly so as not caring for anything other than the waters they fish. Even then most do not care as long as they keep catching.

 

[The bad one]

I still look on the AT as a group that organises matches and not much else. Majority of anglers are still seen and rightly so as not caring for anything other than the waters they fish. Even then most do not care as long as they keep catching.

I couldn't really disagree with much in what you say. But I can tell you as fact, it wasn't meant to be that way as far as the AT was concerned. Dave Bird the architect of it must be rolling in his grave with desperation.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

I couldn't really disagree with much in what you say. But I can tell you as fact, it wasn't meant to be that way as far as the AT was concerned. Dave Bird the architect of it must be rolling in his grave with desperation.

Indeed not . . . Like you Phil I well remember the early discussions concerning the formation of the Trust . . . . and a couple of inflientual gentemen not wanting "individual members as they are too difficult to control . . . whereas clubs just pay up and shut up . . . "

Remember him?

 

[The bad one]

Indeed I do!
I still have the discussion papers written by Birdie from long before it became pubic that angling was looking to unify the whole sport and how it was envisage by him it would work. His untimely death left the field open to his vision being watered down. And here we are now with something that's of mediocrity that's failing to represent angling and letting others runaway with the field.

 

[108831]

My post(the 65 tonnes one)was what I had been told,the chances are it was around 65,000 litres,my concern is,is that,that is what they are admitting to,with all probability it was more,this is at Bedford,the river is fairly wide and deep there,but if it came in at Kempston,or Willington(basically suburbs of Bedford)the river is fairly small and pretty shallow,the very small river that I have been fishing a lot for the past few years has a massive sewage works some six or seven miles upstream of the water that several of us fish,normally the river rises in the afternoon every day when the release 'treated effluent',it hasnt been happening the last few times ive fished it and I wonder if they have been dumping untreated stuff at night,when it wouldnt be seen,I certainly would not put it past them,the wealthy people with large properties along several parts of the river wouldnt not see it then...

 

[bullet]

I won't join the pile- on ,thanks. I've reported several incidents to the EA over the years and they have been responsive and helpful. I have also been involved with survey work with them and found on the ground staff knowledgeable and decent, and often passionate anglers too. The upper echelons have sometimes been decent but , sadly , marred by some staff who seem more focussed on process than outcome.

But we are in the classic Tory scenario again - progressively defund an organisation, brief the press against it , get the public mood on your side and hey presto - sweeping reforms(as they'd call it) and a once decent agency is half privatised and the reminder hugely defunded. .

And before we get too consumed by outrage about our rivers' state , many of them (virtually every river in post industrial areas) are in infinitely better states than they were in the 60s and 70s .

Yes, I've got a nasty feeling we're all being "Softened up" for your middle paragraph.

 

[steve2]

My post(the 65 tonnes one)was what I had been told,the chances are it was around 65,000 litres,my concern is,is that,that is what they are admitting to,with all probability it was more,this is at Bedford,the river is fairly wide and deep there,but if it came in at Kempston,or Willington(basically suburbs of Bedford)the river is fairly small and pretty shallow,the very small river that I have been fishing a lot for the past few years has a massive sewage works some six or seven miles upstream of the water that several of us fish,normally the river rises in the afternoon every day when the release 'treated effluent',it hasnt been happening the last few times ive fished it and I wonder if they have been dumping untreated stuff at night,when it wouldnt be seen,I certainly would not put it past them,the wealthy people with large properties along several parts of the river wouldnt not see it then...

Thames Water dumped sewage in the Thames on Christmas Day. I assume they hope no one would be around to see it.

 

[flightliner]

Programme on tv the other day featured the Wey saying how much battery chicken farming
had grown so big in the valley that because farmers were buying the excrement for fertiliser the run off from the land into the river was turning it green in the summertime.
If this is so and is proovable (well, the evidence is all there to see) why are'nt the relavent authorities taking action to help save this iconic river?
Is it really so much to ask, that rivers should be treated with much more respect than they are right now?
Dumped in, treated so badly that they become little more than a sewer with bankside trees and vegetation festooned with all manner of filth.
No it's not, it's high time a government, any government took the bull by the horns and put thing in motion to stop this madness once and for all!

 

[no-one in particular]

Programme on tv the other day featured the Wey saying how much battery chicken farming
had grown so big in the valley that because farmers were buying the excrement for fertiliser the run off from the land into the river was turning it green in the summertime.
If this is so and is proovable (well, the evidence is all there to see) why are'nt the relavent authorities taking action to help save this iconic river?
Is it really so much to ask, that rivers should be treated with much more respect than they are right now?
Dumped in, treated so badly that they become little more than a sewer with bankside trees and vegetation festooned with all manner of filth.
No it's not, it's high time a government, any government took the bull by the horns and put thing in motion to stop this madness once and for all!

Bet they don't, the main theme at the moment is an illegal party, a supposed Chinese spy, how to get rid of the leader, and a retired from life royal. I doubt a disaster waiting to happen on one of our main rivers will get much of a look in; they govern for themselves by themselves. Are they forgetting why they are there and what they are supposed to be doing!

 

[steve2]

Those of us that are still here will asking the same questions about the state of rivers, those rivers that are left, in 20 years time. We all know nothing will change population growth will see to that with millions more crammed onto this small island all wanting to be housed,fed and watered with millions more tons of sewage waste to get rid of. The easiest way to get rid will be to dump it somewhere.

 

[no-one in particular]

Those of us that are still here will asking the same questions about the state of rivers, those rivers that are left, in 20 years time. We all know nothing will change population growth will see to that with millions more crammed onto this small island all wanting to be housed,fed and watered with millions more tons of sewage waste to get rid of. The easiest way to get rid will be to dump it somewhere.

What is a sustainable population for this country and should population control be used to achieve it, stop all immigration and one baby per family? Or make all our industry including all our sewage companies, farms etc. clean up. That will take massive investment and strongly enforced legislation, proper disposal of all waste like incinerators and recycling done properly, all plastic banned or licensed or recycled. How do we do it? And with a parliament so self obsessed with itself how will they ever get round to it. Or as you say just carry on dumping it, what choices are there and how do we get there, how do you change it on a big scale?

 

[no-one in particular]

As an aside I overheard a conversation the other day, two girls discussing their boyfriends and marriage and having children, one said who would have a child in this. Maybe a bit of self imposed population control is on its way. Aside from that I have a lot of faith in our youngsters, they will be fitter, stronger, better medical care more knowledgeable about looking after themselves, smoking and alcohol educated, DNA research and medicines and so on, better educated than my generation certainly. More environmentally educated and aware than we were as well. Not all of course but some will take the world is at their feet now literally, not just stuck with EU at their feet and all the limitations that imposed and I think they are going to bloom, the next 50 years may prove me wrong but that is what I think regardless. Maybe they will take care of all the pollution a lot better than we ever did as well. We have been useless, still are, can't cope with it and apart from whining about it all the time, nothing much has happened.

Do the kids of today rally around Boris or Starmer or Greta! She will more than likely become a politician of the next generation and many more like her, maybe.

 

[fishface1]

I wonder how many people would really want to make sacrifices for a few fish and the odd otter….

Pay more for your food?
Eat less dairy?
Eat less poultry product?

(Agriculture attributed 36% to not achieving good ecological status)

Max one child?
Pay more for your water?
Pay more for your sewage disposal?

(Water industry 24%)

Drive less?
Pay significant amounts to upgrade urban run-off?
Pay more for a new house?

(11%)