Discontinued products......what would you want?

[flightliner]

Reading this thread has found me looking into an old bag of gear. I,ve found loads of Partridge hooks from the early nineties. Kevin Maddocks hair rig hooks, Jack Hilton "Blob Hooks,Cassien hooks, Outbarb hooks, and some original (I think) niflon coated hooks -- Z1s Z11s etx.
I shall definately be using the hair rig hooks as they seem perfect for what I am doing at the moment.
Cant think why I stopped using some of them.

 

[chav professor]

There were one or two patterns of hooks manufactured by Partridge I used to swear by........ but on reflection, my faith in them was not really justified........ There isn't anything discontinued in terms of hooks that I would bring back - though many were good patterns. Doesn't Partidge still manufacture hooks for the fly tying market?

If I still had some, I would be more than happy to use them...... Didn't Tony miles have a supply of Lion D'Or hooks he used to swear by for Chubbing.....

It would be a minor disaster if Drennan stopped manufacturing 'Super Specialist' hooks - they are a modern classic.......

 

[terry m]

Au Lion D'or hooks were the carp hook of the early-mid 70's, specialist carp anglers used little else, they were indeed very strong by comparison to other offerings at the time. Today they would not cut the .mustard I fear.

Partridge hooks are still available and still my preferred pattern of double or treble for piking. Unfortunately they are not available in too many outlets, so i often have to fall back on Owners

 

[peterjg]

Herta used to make a sausage called 'Red Jak' (later name changed to 'Salami') which has been discontinued. It was a fantastic bait - I caught a lot of carp to 44lb 12oz on it, also catfish (17lb), tench, bream (14lb), roach, eels, chub, barbel and even a few double figure pike!

If anyone knows of its reintroduction please let me know.

 

[flightliner]

Au lion d'or hooks.I found them to be pretty awful, wouldnt stay where they were meant to. I threw around four packets in the bin one day.

 

[cg74]

Au lion d'or hooks.I found them to be pretty awful, wouldnt stay where they were meant to. I threw around four packets in the bin one day.

Here's a quote that sums up my opinion of those damned hooks: "Hated Au lion D'or's the only carp hook that you could straighten with your fingers and a ballpoint pen was sharper."

 

[markhib]

Herta used to make a sausage called 'Red Jak' (later name changed to 'Salami') which has been discontinued. It was a fantastic bait - I caught a lot of carp to 44lb 12oz on it, also catfish (17lb), tench, bream (14lb), roach, eels, chub, barbel and even a few double figure pike!

If anyone knows of its reintroduction please let me know.

They're doing a frankfurter with chilli at the moment which is very popular with the carp at my local water. A little soft though, they keep disappearing off my hair.

 

[peterjg]

Dear Markhib - thanks for the info, I'll give it a try.

 

[terry m]

Here's a quote that sums up my opinion of those damned hooks: "Hated Au lion D'or's the only carp hook that you could straighten with your fingers and a ballpoint pen was sharper."

It is strange how perceptions differ. I only ever had one or two maximum straighten on me. As for sharpness, this was pre-chemically sharpening days so most hooks were well below what we expect today.

Were there any truly high quality alternatives?

 

[williams7383]

would kill for a good condtioned ASI box

 

[bigchub]

It would be a minor disaster if Drennan stopped manufacturing 'Super Specialist' hooks - they are a modern classic.......

Would be the same for me if they stopped producing the Drennan Continental Boilie hooks. They are truly the daddy for winter chubbing!

 

[chav professor]

Continentals are a popular patten and many people continue to use them with no problems for Chub.....

Chub have got funny old mouths to get a hook hold... the lips or the inner membrane. the best hook hold is achieved using tiny size 20 or 18 hooks - these seem to find the lip and once in are a bu@@er to get out.

I have used thick wire hooks, but the continentals are very heavy gauge wire for their size. the reason I stopped using them was that because of having a greater cross sectional area, they require more force to 'drive' in.

My perception is that size 6 hooks in smaller gauge wire achieves a more secure hook hold and moves around less - as for the forces involved in straightening a super specialist or similar hook patten - Chub just can't do this - so on balance prefer a lighter patten in sizes 14 - 2......

I am a creature of contradiction though... to fish a whole slice of bread on a hook, you can't beat size 2 Korda wide gape hooks These hooks have a very wide gape and can accept a whole slice of thick brown hovis (minus the crust) very nicely. Which coincidently I fish on 12lb line straight through to the hook in even the clearest, brightest of conditions......

I know continentals are fine and by reputation are widely used - but I am a subversive and challenge conventional wisdom

 

[alan whittington]

Are you guys using cont. boilie hooks on the hair,or actually mounting baits on the hook,if the latter,they seem the wrong shape in my experience,as usual,personal confidence is all.

 

[chav professor]

Neither

But they do have a cult following and must work! I do question articles where they have been suggested as a suitable Chub hook - It just seems to be an idea that is perpetuated regarding their suitability as a 'hit and hold' hook for extracting Chub from snags.... It does seem daft if the article then goes on to suggest using 6lb line.... I would imagine it would be tough to 'bend out' a continental using 50lb braid!!!!!

If that is the main criteria, 6lb line and a finer gauge hook would be far more than adequate.

 

[no-one in particular]

Continentals are a popular patten and many people continue to use them with no problems for Chub.....

Chub have got funny old mouths to get a hook hold... the lips or the inner membrane. the best hook hold is achieved using tiny size 20 or 18 hooks - these seem to find the lip and once in are a bu@@er to get out.

I have used thick wire hooks, but the continentals are very heavy gauge wire for their size. the reason I stopped using them was that because of having a greater cross sectional area, they require more force to 'drive' in.

My perception is that size 6 hooks in smaller gauge wire achieves a more secure hook hold and moves around less - as for the forces involved in straightening a super specialist or similar hook patten - Chub just can't do this - so on balance prefer a lighter patten in sizes 14 - 2......

I am a creature of contradiction though... to fish a whole slice of bread on a hook, you can't beat size 2 Korda wide gape hooks These hooks have a very wide gape and can accept a whole slice of thick brown hovis (minus the crust) very nicely. Which coincidently I fish on 12lb line straight through to the hook in even the clearest, brightest of conditions......

I know continentals are fine and by reputation are widely used - but I am a subversive and challenge conventional wisdom

Chav- I also find a 14 hook good for chub. It works well in the way you describe. My question is the whole slice of bread on a 2 hook and 12lb line. Is that for chub and does it work, I have never tried that before? Or is that for carp. Actually, I guess it must be but, just curious.

 

[chav professor]

certainly does.... floating, slow sinking or sinking. Big bait.... bigger fish.
the 12lb line is really visible, often strike before any registration on the tip. cast out, allow some slack to form a bow (12lb line has memory coils from the spool), strike as the line straightens and cuts across the water.

this Chub fell to 12lb line and a whole slice of brown thick sliced Hovis on the surface....

the thread is interesting though.. stuff gets discontinued as it falls from popularity. Often, an essential pice of terminal tackle, once discontinued gets replaced with something far superior and you get on with it and wonder why you felt that way about the original article!!

 

[sam vimes]

the thread is interesting though.. stuff gets discontinued as it falls from popularity.

I'm not convinced that's always the case. Most stuff gets discontinued because it gets more expensive to produce and the profit margin reduces (people don't much like them putting prices up in a big way on identical items), the manufacturer has a policy of model rotation where nothing stays in a catalogue for more than three years or so, the manufacturer goes through yet another rebranding exercise, or they simply can't source a material or component any more.

Sadly, with some stuff it's simply down to the fact that certain items, even very good ones, just don't sell in huge quantities or at a steady rate. Rather than buying small items on a regular basis, many buy in bulk when they find something they really like, just in case it ceases to be available. This actually hastens discontinuation because sales go well then drop off to nothing, shops cease to sell the item and then the manufacturers discontinue when the shops stop ordering.

All that adds up to why the tackle trade is a bit of a nightmare. The only stuff you can rely on as regular sellers are perishable and/or used regularly in quantity. This usually means bait. I'm a very active angler but I wouldn't want to rely on myself for a big income. I find that with experience I buy better and lose less. Even consumable and perishable stuff like line and shot can be made to last a long time. I don't recall the last time I bought a tub of shot. I do know that one tub I have in one of my tackle boxes has a price sticker of a shop in Oxfordshire. I've not been in Oxfordshire since 2001.

 

[chav professor]

A reflection on modern fishing trends..... the carp market is flooded with stuff and this market is well catered for.... carp pellet waglers are branded at that market, but are equally well pressed into other applications.

The specialist market is small, but there is a loyal following for specific components. I would be hacked off if Drennan ceased production of their clear plastic loafer floats.....

You could argue that the Barbel specialist market is awash with products at the moment. The dedicated Chub specialist market??? Too small to bother with IMO and to no detriment..... otherwise loads of advertorials and cloned angling 'tactics'.

---------- Post added at 06:06 ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 ----------

Definitely pays to consider hook shape and size when applied to a chubs mouth... this fishes mouth has a deformity - likely caused by harsh unhooking, or perhaps a genetic anomaly.... but you get the general idea....

You can clearly see the receptors on the lips - we can only presume these enable the fish to feel sensations around the lip area.

 

[bigchub]

Are you guys using cont. boilie hooks on the hair,or actually mounting baits on the hook,if the latter,they seem the wrong shape in my experience,as usual,personal confidence is all.

I use the cont. boilie hooks when both mounting baits on a hair and fishing with baits direct on the hook for example, cheesepaste, bread and luncheon meat. Its on of the few patterns where you don't need to muck about with bits of shrink tubing or anything like that when hair rigging. They seem to flip over "naturally" on their own.

I'm not convinced that it matters too much how thick the gauge of wire is when chub fishing as long as its strong, sticky sharp, reliable and doesn't straighten out easily. I prefer beaked points a opposed to straight point as they seem to give me more secure hook holds. Many's the time when I've caught chub with the conti. boilie hooks when only a tiny bit of skin has been the difference between the fish escaping and me landing it, thats why I use them because I know when it comes down to it they don't come out under any circumstances.

I've never had any problems with having to "drive them in" either as Christian has stated. If you need to "drive" the hook in in the first place then your rig is wrong. Most of the chub I catch have already been hooked before the tip has gone fully round and that's not with a bolt rig, just a very simple link ledger set up.

They don't seem to mind any strength of line either, as Christian has demonstrated from his captures, if they did he wouldn't catch so many! You could use 20 or 30lb braid if you wanted to and I'd still be confident of catching, the point is that you wouldn't use that for chubbing because its so over the top, plus how many of you would use that for chubbing plus have a suitable quiver tip rod? 6-8lb line is man enough for most chubbing situations unless you have other factors to consider, such as strong fast flows, barbel, weed, snags etc.

 

[chav professor]

To be fair, 12lb line is an example of the extreme - the purpose of its use is that the line IS the indication. The fish is nearly alway unaware of its predicament. I play the fish with the same clutch setting as I would 6lb line. if you do snag up on weed - you can always get your hook back - you can practically bring in a weedbed!

If fishing maggots, its 3.2lb Drennan float fish to whatever diameter hooklink I can get away with.

Trotting bread, 4lb line straight through to the hook.

For stalking, it has to be a good quality 6lb - Super specialist line is King in this respect.

If monofilament line was discontinued - we'd all be bu@@erd

Does anyone use those old star point hooks drennan used to manufacture....? They appeared to offer an advantage, but never really took off.