Double Standards

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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Shopping in Tesco's at 4am this morning, I spotted the latest copy of Carpworld. As I danced with glee (never seen the mag this far North before) I suddenly stopped. Nope, it wasn't the price, although i do begrudge paying that sort of money for what is really a yellow pages of tackle with 3 or 4 articles thrown in for good measure...it was the adverts for the French fisheries (Dream Lake, Fishabil etc.)
I had remembered the slagging that the poor match anglers had been given regarding commercial Match fisheries stocked with carp. It suddenly hit me that this is exactly what british carp anglers are paying for in France. For example, one very well known french carp water was quoting 56 tonnes of carp in a 10 acre water...WHAT!! Thats a rediculous stocking level! Figures like forty 40's, hundreds of 20's etc got me thinking.
I know people travel, spend a great deal of money etc on the fishing, but are we really any better than a match angler fishing for single figure carp in a muddy hole in the UK?

I expect some trouble on this one :)
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Rob, I'm going to support you on this one. I've never been able to understand just why carp are so popular amongst English anglers.
Carp, kept in their place do little to damage the environment. In the old days before the massive over-infestations of this modified goldfish took place, carp were few and confined themselves to a small number of water which were fished by a few fanatics. If the quantity of carp mentioned, truly exist in these French lakes, then it must be at the expense of proper native species such as bream, roach, rudd, tench etc.

A well known gravel pit in the Southern part of Britain used to provide some of the best tench fishing I hade ever experienced. Then the carp boys came along and wanted the tench out. Can anyone explain in words of one syllable why anglers would prefer carp before tench?

In addition to the the lake was too weedy and aggressive chemicals were used to remove it.

To cut a long story short, the tench fishing now is nearly non-existant, the lake is full of a large quantity of known named carp and on top of that the roach, rudd, perch and big bream have almost disappeard. I do realise that some anglers like carp fishing. Bit must this be at the expense of our native species?
 
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john conway

Guest
Whilst out fishing on Friday at a small local fishery, “carp stocking” was the topic of conversation. We all had an extremely good day’s fishing with mixed bags of small fish and several carp running from 4lb to 14lb. However, the best catch of the day was the lad, fishing maggot and bread on the pole, he caught a 1.5 lb, 2.5 lb and 3.25 lb Perch. We all agreed that a balance must be maintained between species stocked even if that meant restricting the number and top weight of carp in the pond. So long as the carp fishing “street cred” is based on how big a fish you’ve caught, then commercial waters will always have artificial stocking levels. In the past it was syndicated waters which limited these top rankings to the few in the know or those with money. You could be the most skilful angler in the country but if the waters you fish don’t have the big fish in them, then to the likes of the Angling Times you’re just an other run of the mill angler.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Well said John.

I have actually heard and read, at times, where anglers are judged by the size of the fish they have caught. Certainly this is the way of Angling Newspapers.

I often wonder what would have happened if **** Walker had not caught the record carp?

What do you think?
 
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The Gaffer

Guest
Hi all, I was in a popular tackle shop a few weeks ago when the shop owner said that the future of his shop was in the hands of the hard-core matchman/women and the hard-core carp angler.
He explained that these were the types of people to part with hard cach and keep his buisness thriving.
I think fishery owners have also realised this and have stocked to suit the big spenders.

As a carp angler I don't think we've ever had it so good, but as you say, is it at the expense of the other species?

I've fished soley for carp for the last 8 years (5 years on the match curcuit prior) and I'm probably the type of carp angler you're refering to in that when I fish for carp I'm always after the biggest and wisely old carp in the lake.
I love my carp fishing and it's the challange of getting the 'big un' that gives me the buzz! (whether I catch it or not)

As for fisheries I would like to see them all mixed and balanced, but with money making the 'world-go-round' I sadly think that it's not the case.

Atb,

Gaffer.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
I am certainly not having a go at specimen hunters, I do that myself, I was refering to the fact that there was a lively debate on here regarding heavily stocked commercial match fisheries being "wrong", but there are carpers paying large amounts of cash to go and fish French waters that are overstoked with big carp. Is it not the same thing?
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
I think carp fishing is popular because of the publicity it gets. Not only that but carp fishing is ruled by a sub culture that tends to attract the sort of people you see at football matches, also those who read about the doings of Beckhem and Geri Halliwell; and those that take the Daily Star & Daily Sport.
Carp in heavily stocked waters are very easy to catch indeed (I've fished a couple)
 
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John Tait

Guest
"I think carp fishing is popular because of the publicity it gets".

Yes, I can agree with that, Ron - also because even a small carp is a large fish (if you see what I mean ??)

"Not only that but carp fishing is ruled by a sub culture that tends to attract the sort of people you see at football matches, also those who read about the doings of Beckhem and Geri Halliwell; and those that take the Daily Star & Daily Sport. "

Ouch !! - I hereby claim to be the exception (sorry, one of many exceptions) to that rule !!!

I have never had any interest at all in football, the Beckhams, the Spice Girls, and tabloid newspapers (in fact, no newspapers at all) - but I do have a great interest in carp, and in fact virtually any British freshwater fish. That does not mean that I would fish for just any fish though - I have spent far too many years trying to select the larger specimens of whatever species I am fishing for, to be happy catching tiny fish which go "30 to the pound", as I have sometimes seen it mentioned in the angling press.

Don't get me wrong, I do have a certain amount of respect for the anglers who do fish in this way, but it is just not for me.

And I also agree with your atatement that carp in heavily-stocked waters are very easy to catch - but instead of carp, substitute roach or perch or bream or whatever, at the same stocking levels, and would they not also become very easy to catch ??


Jonty
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
There are of course many "quality" carp anglers about who truly care for all other species of fish and don't read the Daily Star, such as yourself
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Well I for one will rush out and get a copy of The Sun and see if I can't land myself a record breaker ;)
 
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Birds Nest

Guest
"sub culture that tends to attract the sort of people you see at football matches, also those who read about the doings of Beckhem and Geri Halliwell; and those that take the Daily Star & Daily Sport." Hmmm I've been known to read both of those gutter tabloids AND attend Football matches....

I really dont think we need this sort of sterotyping here do we ???

That said I understand the comments made. It cant be good for a water to have just the one species in a water can it ?
 
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Glenn Miller

Guest
having caught my first double figure carp in '70 and been a dedicated fun angler since that time I wouyld agree that unfortunately there is increasing pressure on fishery owners and clubs to go down the carp route.
This was evidenced by the fact that my club, which has rights over two pits in a very scenic area with a mixed stock of fish, including carp has just given the OK to night fishing. It appears that this is designed primarily to attract the carp fishermen as they feel this is the way to combat a reduction in club membership.

The carp guys are dedicated to the point of obsession and we need all the weight of opinion in favour of fishing we can get, so if it has to be carp puddles, here or in more temperate climbs good luck to them.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Glenn,
I can understand what you are saying. If this is true then I feel very very sad indeed.

Some of my favourite coarse fish are tench and roach. For these indigenous species to have to make way for carp is indeed upsetting.

What it is that makes the carp so attractive I find very difficult to put my fingers on.

Maybe you carp anglers can tell me? I have caught thousands of carp in my life up to very large sizes by British standards. I would rather catch a 1.5 lb roach or 6 pound tench any day than these ugly great lumps.
 

GrahamM

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Ah, but Ron (if I could slip in a quick clich?) beauty is in the eye of beholder. There's nowt so ugly as catfish, but I love 'em.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Graham,
I have caught lots of catfish in my life - in Africa. There they were an indigenous species, and yes as ugly as sin, but I did enjoy catching them - because they belonged. They were also wild as nature made them. This property of wildness in any species I find to be highly desirable.

Now as sure as eggs are eggs, someone is going to hammer me because I like fishing for stocked rainbows. These fish are tolerable, are mainly stocked into artifical waters and in most cases do not breed in the UK. They also do not live for very long and as such are acceptable as a game and food fish.
 
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The Gaffer

Guest
Ron Clay: Maybe you carp anglers can tell me? I have caught thousands of carp in my life up to very large sizes by British standards. I would rather catch a 1.5 lb roach or 6 pound tench any day than these ugly great lumps.

Hi all, good thread this, Ron, for me carp fishing offers all of the challenges and enjoyment that I need or want.
Although I do get enjoyment from catching other species, carp fishing suits my life style with a young family, leaving week-end days free.
Each to their own. ;)

Going back to why carp fishing is so popular, I think the fact that it is quite a fashionable branch of the sport.
Part of carp fishing for me is buying and trying the latest gadgets, tying up new rigs, buying the latest bait, etc, but then I'm a tackle tart! :)

As for over stocked waters, again, I think it's all about money and pulling in the punters.
If that's what you like, each to their own, horses for coarses and all that. (although it's not my cup of tea!)

Atb,

Gaffer.
 

GrahamM

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Me, I'm just glad I like fishing anywhere for anything. I just love fishing. Carp, barbel, dace, flyfishing, sea fishing, snatching bits on the pole.

My enjoyment has no boundaries. Time is my only restriction.
 
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Paul Williams

Guest
If i were to be honest then i would have to say that some waters have been turned over to carp at the expense of fish like tench, roach, and bream..some are more suited to carp even, but thats another debate.
For all the waters we have lost we have gained more!....some of the carp waters i know hold collosal bream, tench, roach etc, you only have to look at gravel pits they can be terrific general course fisheries, admittingly more demanding than some waters for less experienced anglers but there are waters about to fulfil that nique.......in fact i can honestly say i have more waters at my disposal now than ever before, the only problem is as Graham stated having more time!!
Rob, we seem to have gone off your original statement a little....sorry mate but don't we always :eek:)
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
You have a good balanced attitude to angling Graham. However just imagine the scenario in some years time when all there is to be caught in virtually all the still water in Britain is carp.

I don't want to be alive when this day dawns.
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Paul, I expected it!!..lol

Ron...bring on the Carp!!...I have none in local waters...
 
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