Educated Trout

[ray bewick]

Well what do you do?. The fisheries on hard times, stocking levels low but you notice a hard core of feeding trout of which some get caught noticable to imitations in the surface film in ripple( no catch & release) but those that get pricked get clever; 'rolling' takes resulting in bolting fish not hooked , fish taken in ripple on shipmans (claret) occasionaly hatchs of large red 3/4" midge + usuals hatchs .Time now.Weather now but south of England. Thoughts?

 

[Alan Roe]

Use a flurocarbon leader and reduce the thickness of the leader the combination of the two will improve presentation.
Flies make a buzzer pattern with a eathafoam wing
but below the wing dress the body sparsely dub around the root of the wing with a little black&red seals fur the fly so dressed will sit with the wing in the surface with the body hanging below.
Cast a team of thes across the wind and watch the tip of the fly line...a double taper line is best for this job.
Resist at all costs the temptation to retrieve at all leave the Bl**dy things alone and wait for the tip of the flyline to draw away.....
Sorted ...as they say down south!

 

[ray bewick]

Sorry Alan done it!, all of it. 5lb sight free and I get droppers smashed off, edge of the ripple 30yds distance WF 8, if the ripple is 10yds out no problem WF 6 & SF 5lb.
Fish confident early morning but not allowed to fish until 08:00 & evening rises for the last few years have been inconsistant. Completely agree with your dressing suggestions, i've tied some hare's ear emergers but without the additional red this seems to be a 'must have' at the moment. Have you a favourite fly / dressing?.
As for your comment regarding retrieving, abso blooming lutely, however if the line moves its too late or results in a foul hooked fish!.
The fish are also spooked by flyline and the sight of it will cause them to move rapidly aways.

regards

 

[Ron Clay]

Right then, if you haven't already done so, dye your fly line a dark colour using Dylon. Use Preston Innovation Fluorocarbon in 5.9 lbs. Its the thinnest around.

Tie your buzzer imitations using soft materials. The trout tend to hang onto them longer than some of these silly epoxy thing which seem to be all the rage.

 

[Alan Roe]

if you are being smashed off by the drag of your line try using a light shooting head to egt your distance. that will have much less resistance to a taking fish.
I also agree with Ron about the use of soft materials for the buzzer patterns.....Good Grief I've just agreed with Ron on something....mutter gibber!!!
E- mail me with an address for you and I will send you one of my favourite buzzers for you to copy

 

[Ron Clay]

So will I.

If you can't get on with shooting heads, try a Lee Wulff line. Brilliant they are for buzzer and nymph fishing.

 

[ray bewick]

Whoa!, so much helpful input. Cheers guys.

Ron - Point 1 - Thank you, the obvious is easily missed I have a green dyed double taper 6 which could aid both yours & Alan's advice.
Ron - Point 2 - the successful patterns for me & at the moment; I appear to do better then most by way of offers / swirls/ pulls, are tied with seal fur with Antron breathers is that what you mean by 'soft'materials.
Ron - the Lee wulff - Triangle taper ? Rocket Taper something like that. Excellent line had one a few seasons ago, a mouse took a liking to it as well.

Alan - Once again good obvious point, i've clearly forgotten how to think laterally, or maybe just literally.

I'm new to this forum lark, so I may well offend ettiquette without knowing. Anyway adress to follow guys & thanks for the assistance.

Regards

 

[Dave Johnson]

Ron, intresting point on dying your fly line, but I am not sure what it achieves?

Anything seen on the surface from beneath will be (usually) against a light background (sky) and will therefore almost appear as a silhouette surely?

 

[Ron Clay]

Dave, I suggest you get hold of a book written by John Goddard & Brian Clarke. I think it was called "The Way of a Trout with a Fly" published about 1980. In it are various underwater photos of different coloured fly lines floating on the surface. All the lines when viewed from directly below are visible, However if you look at the lines at an angle of less than 10 deg to the surface, the light rays are bent downwards so in effect you are looking at the lake or river bed or stream. The bright coloured lines stand out like s sore thumb against the brown bottom of the river whilst the dark line blends in.

There is also the question of when the line is in the air as it is being cast. A bright coloued line will stand out against a dark background and scare trout.

Also read either 1 or 2 of **** Walker's Fly Fishing. There the facts on line colours are layed out extremely well.

Airflo are now doing floating lines in dark camouflaged colours. They spoil it by putting a horrid bit of fluorescence near the tip of the line of course.

These lines are well worth truying but you'll have to get rid of the bit of brightness to get the full benefit

 

[ray bewick]

Ron, I notice you wear glasses like me, are you long sighted?. Personlly I find it increasingly difficult to see flies at distance and or end of my flyline. I would be interested in your thoughts on take detection.

Regards

 

[Ron Clay]

Wow, you should be reading my latest piece in Angling Star. It's all about bite detection in buzzer and nymph fishing.

I am basically short sighted. I don't need specs for reading or fly tying. Howver I need them for driving and fishing.

I combine the senses of touch and sight where ever possible when fly fishing. I often watch the curve of line hanging form the rod tip (swing tipping it's called as well as feeling the line with the second finger of my right hand. I retrieve with a figure of eight and drop style except when river fishing then I use the figure of eight bunch style.

I must admit I feel more trout than I see these days although younger anglers with better eyesight than me my see more takes. I am not prepared to become dogmatic about the subject.

 

[ray bewick]

I was generously given a years worth of back issues of Angling Star a couple of years ago & was impressed with its quality; authors & paper, far better then the two major contenders. Little fellow called Jim McDonald used to write the 'odd' article I believe. I should take a subscription out evan though it was North of Watford Gap based I personally found it far better then anything available in the south.

Educated trout & the take conversion factor.

I have always considered the 'why does a trout take my buzzer imitation when there are apparently millions of naturals' question a incredible conundrum; possibly leading to early confinment in the 'funny farm'. Clear water angling confirms that we have more 'mouthings' then defined pulls hence my question.

Does it matter?, I catch, you catch, but that sight business!.

Natural selection?, man the hunter!. Presumably you & I would be at the bottom of pit somewhere having succumbed to a sight related danger, yet we continue to show our value to the tribe by contributing to mealtimes.

So go on then, why does an educated trout take an artificial buzzer when there are so many other naturals about. or is that just fishing?.

regards

 

[Ron Clay]

These are all very fascinating subjects. There are several books you must read:

1: My Way with Trout by Arthur Cove.

2: **** Walkers Trout Fishing both Parts.

3: The persuit of Still Water Trout by Brian Clarke.

4: Reservior Trout Fishing by Bob Church

These are still the great classic books on still water fly fishing and although written many years ago are bang up to date.

Try Coch y Bondhu books for these titles. You will pick up the address in Waterlog magazine.

 

[Ron Clay]

PS

Ray

Thanks for your very kind comments regarding the Angling Star. If you email me your address I will send you the July issue.

I have just completed two pieces for the August issue.

Shortly when I can find the time I will tie up some buzzer patterns that work well for me and send them to you.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

This may sound like the ravings of a mad man...but get a size 10(ish) muddler minnow and stip it through the Trout!!!!

U may well be plesently supprised. I have done this when they have been occupied with tiny Caenis..and caught straight away.

I think its the "shock" of something skittering above there heads that does it...and thats comming from someone who would rather fish a tiny imitation than a lure :O)

 

[Ron Clay]

No Rob it's not the ravings of a mad man. A muddler stripped quickly is a fantastic "last resort" minor tactic when all else fails. There are those times when trout can make you see red and nothing will work. But that's fishing.

I like to use a muddler on a ressie in a good wind, from a boat. It works very well about Sept Oct time when the trout are on fry.

Use the roly poly or push/pull retrieve to get an even speed.

You can even trail the fly behind a drifting bo..... Whoops - shouldn't have said that.

 

[ray bewick]

Ron

I have the Cove book, the Clarke book I read some years ago and remember it as being excellent, The Church book I have not read; I think at the time I considered him to 'match' orientated!. Mr Walkers books on Trout I have not read, I really cannot believe it the man was a God to me as a kid however I was probably far too interested in his Coarse fishing articles.Your comments regarding Coch-y-bhondu, I have already made purchases from them via phone totally reliable & first class service the only problem a colleague had was via e-mail; a lost order.
I should have already emailed both yourself and Alan Roe with my address by clicking on Email member, did it work?.
The comment on the Star were honest and meant, it appears to embody via the writers some of the spirit of Angling.
Rob,
They won't have it mate, at least not yet!, perhaps in a sedge hatch?. I have tried it at other times & on different venues, it does work sometimes I remember taking a full finned 3lb Brown from Bewl Water late one evening doing just that.

P.S went fishing; 3 trout on claret Shipmans, 3 trout lost due to hooks opening, duff batch of hooks or am I over-gunned or is this another thread?

 

[Ron Clay]

You have simply got to get Walker's trout books. They stuff in them is definitive and the very best ever written on the subject.

In one chapter Walker states that he is not as good a fly fisher as Cove or Church. Coming from him, a statement like that has inner meanings. If you knew **** personally as I did you will understand what I am saying. Coch y Bondhu have a special deal on these books at the moment - ?7.95 each.

Bob Churches first book, compiled by my old friend Colin Dyson (who used to tbe the editor of Angling Telegraph, the foreunner to Angling Star by the way) would be diffcult to find today. I have a first edition signed by Bob that I wouln't part with for the world. This book was written before Bobs match fishing career and contains a lot of Cyril Inwood lore.

There again is another great still water fly fisher - Cyril Inwood. He died at the wheel of his car in the early seventies. What a great loss to angling at the time. He never wrote a book.

Another book which is worth reading is Still Water Fly Fishing by Church and Jardine.

Yes I have got your email.

The claret Shipmans is a good soft pattern that trout hang on to. I have caught many fish on this style of fly.

Hooks

Most of the fly hooks you buy today are crap!!!

For buzzer imitations try Drennan Super Specialists in 10, 12, 14 and 16. The offset shank is fine for these patterns.

I have even tied buzzer patterns on Drennan boily hooks.

Fly hooks get the biggest hammering of any kind of hook. I wish hook manufacturers would realise that. The only thing you can do is give them a good "pinging" in the vice before you tit the fly.

Tight Lines

 

[ray bewick]

Ron
Thanks, the hooks were Kamasan nymph B?, I can only conclude that they are finer in wire, I usually use kamasan B175 descibed as heavy wire and these are fine.I was trying to dress slimmer flies yet keep the bouyancy thus trade off wire weight for a sparser dressing. My fly tying is artisan rather then artist, unlike my regular angling partner who is the latter. I mentioned your comments regarding fly dressing and the something to hang on to / soft dressing and he remembered a colleague in the local speciman group; to which we both belonged some years ago, making the same comment.

I well remember Mr Walker giving the pinging advice; most of the hooks i gave this treatment bent alarmingly easily, so over a period of time I considered that there may be a trade off i.e a balanced outfit will not bend hooks however this means the fight is prolonged, not good in terms of catch & release.

The water I am fishing at present is not catch & release, it is a water supply reservoir, relatively shallow with all the problems & benefits that go with it. It used to have the most amazing fly hatches. Depth is approx 8-10ft gently shelving from concrete banks it is around 40 acres. It has an awful blue green problem which started about 10 years ago & has increased to a level where at present 50% of the res is like algal soup with only the sides from which the wind is blowing relatively & i mean relatively clear, what are your views on the effect of this problem.
I have fished it on & off for 20 yrs, the fish appear to educate fairly rapidly due to the number of fish lost?.

I use Super Specialists for all of my Coarse Angling and only had one batch of hooks that had suspect temper. Interesting the cross over, fly anglers using carp hooks, carp anglers using fly hooks, whatever next a united front?

regards