flick tip on the pole - last man standing?

[mikench]

I stand chastised Kev but unrepentant. I’m glad you like it and wish you success.

 

[markcw]

I have a 7 metre fibreglass Garbolino in the garage, I will take some pics tomorrow,
I think the stated weight at 7metres is not far off my 16 metre Daiwa.

 

[mikench]

I feel some explanation is necessary for my comment to dispel the view that I was implicitly impugning pole fishing. I wasn't by the way. Kev you know that having only commenced fishing less than 6 years ago I bought a few new rods but tried a few older models such as your very own Amorphous Whisker rod with the armalock handle which I had never seen before. I liked it and then embarked on a voyage of discovery buying 2 like it plus a variety of other high end and admired rods from the last 30 years or so. I like my rods and am glad I bought them. In truth many are as good as current rods if not better.

You gave an interesting insight into some of your early poles which by your own admission were heavy and difficult to master. My comment meant to convey that I would not be embarking on a voyage of discovery for old school poles. There was no implied or intended put down of the method. I suspect if I decided to buy a pole you would not recommend one from the 80's or 90's in any event save for the Diaflash. I trust I have now put the record straight.??

 

[markcw]

I feel some explanation is necessary for my comment to dispel the view that I was implicitly impugning pole fishing. I wasn't by the way. Kev you know that having only commenced fishing less than 6 years ago I bought a few new rods but tried a few older models such as your very own Amorphous Whisker rod with the armalock handle which I had never seen before. I liked it and then embarked on a voyage of discovery buying 2 like it plus a variety of other high end and admired rods from the last 30 years or so. I like my rods and am glad I bought them. In truth many are as good as current rods if not better.

You gave an interesting insight into some of your early poles which by your own admission were heavy and difficult to master. My comment meant to convey that I would not be embarking on a voyage of discovery for old school poles. There was no implied or intended put down of the method. I suspect if I decided to buy a pole you would not recommend one from the 80's or 90's in any event save for the Diaflash. I trust I have now put the record straight.??

I would recommend a couple of high end shimanos, plus a couple of Daiwa from that era. Even the mid priced shimanos from then are as good as similar priced poles of today,

 

[markcw]

Not a journey I wish to undertake in the name of nostalgia Kev. It sounds ponderous and laborious sadly.

 

[mikench]

I'll have to think about Mark.?

 

[nottskev]

I feel some explanation is necessary for my comment to dispel the view that I was implicitly impugning pole fishing. I wasn't by the way. Kev you know that having only commenced fishing less than 6 years ago I bought a few new rods but tried a few older models such as your very own Amorphous Whisker rod with the armalock handle which I had never seen before. I liked it and then embarked on a voyage of discovery buying 2 like it plus a variety of other high end and admired rods from the last 30 years or so. I like my rods and am glad I bought them. In truth many are as good as current rods if not better.

You gave an interesting insight into some of your early poles which by your own admission were heavy and difficult to master. My comment meant to convey that I would not be embarking on a voyage of discovery for old school poles. There was no implied or intended put down of the method. I suspect if I decided to buy a pole you would not recommend one from the 80's or 90's in any event save for the Diaflash. I trust I have now put the record straight.??

A masterly submission! Where do you get these barrister skills, I wonder.
Fair enough, Mike, but you have form on this one, and you do always contrive to mention poles in terms of their allegedly unwieldy, cumbersome, laborious, ponderous qualities.
I put it to you that the 5 sections of pole I used to labour and ponder my way to about 50lb of tench and roach the other evening weigh less than your rod and reel combo, are held in one hand with ease and unbeatable in the weedy swim.
I wouldn't try to sell you an old school pole any more than I would a Morris Marina.

 

[mikench]

Duly noted Kev. I plead the 5th. I accept what you say about your pole and your undoubted skill with it. I admired your net full and said as much. I will add comments on poles to comments on , inter alia politics etc as matters likely to cause offence and best left unsaid.

 

[rob48]

I would recommend a couple of high end shimanos, plus a couple of Daiwa from that era. Even the mid priced shimanos from then are as good as similar priced poles of today,

I concur totally with this. I'd had nearly all the top-end Shimano poles and rods during this period, and the improvement from one model to the next was always noticeable, culminating in the step-up from the Diaflash to the Ultegra (red butt section) pole and also the Ultegra 390 Response match rod.
I don't know whether Shimano subsequently decided that the UK market returns weren't worth the R&D they'd previously invested, or if they took the decision to manufacture down to a price point to suit the then rapidly expanding commercial fishery market, but their gear declined markedly from then on and I never bought any again.

 

[markcw]

I concur totally with this. I'd had nearly all the top-end Shimano poles and rods during this period, and the improvement from one model to the next was always noticeable, culminating in the step-up from the Diaflash to the Ultegra (red butt section) pole and also the Ultegra 390 Response match rod.
I don't know whether Shimano subsequently decided that the UK market returns weren't worth the R&D they'd previously invested, or if they took the decision to manufacture down to a price point to suit the then rapidly expanding commercial fishery market, but their gear declined markedly from then on and I never bought any again.

My last shimano pole I had was the Aernos, is was discounted from £1300 or thereabouts to £550, this was due to it being discontinued,
It was as light as my Daiwa G50, and as stiff, a slight lift of the knee to strike when fishing at 16 metres set the hook. Remove the number one section and it was rated to 20 elastic, I only sold it and I got nearly what I paid for it despite the number 4 overwrapped twice and the number 9 overwrapped, all breaks were my fault, Cost of a new number 4 would have been £160 ,hence the £25 overwraps,I didn't bother pricing up a number 9 section.
The reason for selling it was that I had bought the G50,and it went to fund part of that plus spares availability was getting scarce., already had a 16 metre maver which I sold at same time, and later bought back and resold at later date.
At the time Shimano still had the 16 metre beastmaster for sale, that was a strong but heavy pole, and that ended up being discontinued and discounted.
I keep hearing rumours they may be bringing a couple of poles out,
Try looking on auction sites for late high end shimano poles, they are none existent. People must be hanging onto them

 

[rob48]

I honestly wouldn't swap my Browning Silverlite (I've got a Milo 10-10 and a Maver J51 lying about and they still hold their own, especially for silvers) for any of the Shimano poles from back then but I do look for the rods and there are very few of the good ones about. The last used, genuine Japanese manufactured Ultegra Response I saw was going for about £260/270. When you consider the RRP in the early 90s was about £330 it shows the regard in which these rods are held.

 

[markcw]

I have 3 shimano rods, 2 were old stock new with the labels on,
They are a 13' Aspire.
A 15' - 17' spliced tip Aspire, made for a shimano sponsored angler at the time and never collected.
And a 12' - 13' speedcast 90g feeder rod with extra tips, this was the first one ever made and was Jan Porters personal rod to trial.
I have seen the 13' Aspire and speedcast rods on foreign websites and they are around €280 on them.
The spliced tip rod was a custom made one apparently.

 

[rob48]

Spliced-tips are another subject all of their own but better not derail the thread.

 

[nottskev]

Duly noted Kev. I plead the 5th. I accept what you say about your pole and your undoubted skill with it. I admired your net full and said as much. I will add comments on poles to comments on , inter alia politics etc as matters likely to cause offence and best left unsaid.

Hmmm. I'm in no way encouraging anyone to self-censor about poles. It would be unfair to imply the subject is best avoided for fear of offending me, and on a par with politics. Challenging someone on some sweeping general comment is not at all the same as stifling it. I genuinely wonder why, when it's clear you don't get on with poles, you blame the poles, and I'm curious what you say when it's pointed out that these giant, cumbersome, weighty, unwieldy poles are as often as not, light, wieldy, handy and perfectly manageable by even lightweights like me.

 

[nottskev]

Try looking on auction sites for late high end shimano poles, they are none existent. People must be hanging onto them

I've got 4. 3 are spares but I can't wear out the first. (It helps that I don't pole fish for carp)
As regards opinions on Shimano gear evolution, I personally didn't find the Ultegra's an improvement on the Diaflash series, and I tried and sold some on, leaving me with 4 poles and 4 rods, 2x14', 13' and 12' from the Diaflash series.
But, like others, I do wish Shimano had stayed in the game with high-end gear.

 

[rob48]

As I was heavily involved in canal matches at the time the slight weight, balance and rigidity improvement of the Ultegra over the Diaflash was a definite bonus when trying to chase squatt roach up the far shelf or laying on caster for the bigger samples. I was able to catch with the Diaflash (which was probably a better all-rounder?) but the Ultegra was superior for those partiicular tasks.
Another thing about the the Ultegra was that it came supplied with two slightly different top-twos, one being a little shorter and faster tapered than the other and so suited to the heavier 6-8 elastic compared to the 2-5 of the standard. A small example of the innovation Shimano were noted for back then.
Interestingly Shimano also introduced the 15.5m Super Ultegra model at the same time, geared more to the demands of the commercial carpers, an indication of the way things were moving.

 

[nottskev]

As I was heavily involved in canal matches at the time the slight weight, balance and rigidity improvement of the Ultegra over the Diaflash was a definite bonus when trying to chase squatt roach up the far shelf or laying on caster for the bigger samples. I was able to catch with the Diaflash (which was probably a better all-rounder?) but the Ultegra was superior for those partiicular tasks.
Another thing about the the Ultegra was that it came supplied with two slightly different top-twos, one being a little shorter and faster tapered than the other and so suited to the heavier 6-8 elastic compared to the 2-5 of the standard. A small example of the innovation Shimano were noted for back then.
Interestingly Shimano also introduced the 15.5m Super Ultegra model at the same time, geared more to the demands of the commercial carpers, an indication of the way things were moving.

That's interesting. I can quite see how the Ultegra would fit with what you wanted. I fished few canal matches, and rarely fished right across canals or longer than 11 or 12m. I mostly fished waters where bigger fish could be caught closer - the Weaver, a deep part canalised river in Cheshire - was my favourite for 12 years, for example. I readily accept the Diaflash could be inferior at longer lengths. I started off treating it with kid gloves - elastics up to 6, avoiding big fish. It was the dearest bit of kit I'd bought, so I was taking no chances. As years went by - the one I caught a netful of tench on the other evening will be 30 in 2 years, a monument to Jointsave - I appreciated how robust and versatile, as well as light and stiff, it was. I wasn't tempted by the new generations of carp-proof power poles - not my thing - and besides, it began to appear that the new generations of carp-proof power poles could be actually quite fragile if a section tapped anything solid, dropped from a small height or was lifted up in the wrong place. There seemed to be always someone in the tackle shops leaving in a broken section, picking up a repaired one or ordering a replacement.
Touch wood, I've never damaged a section or had one fail, and it's caught untold quantities of fish, usually, up to 9.5 m's with a bag or a holdall instead of a giant scaffold behind me. I've gone from gingerly catching roach on a 4 or 6 elastic to a point where last week it landed a surprise 5lb stillwater barbel with a doubled no4 elastic through the number 2 section with a no 1 cut down to 6 inches. It's longevity has been one of the most pleasant surprises of all the gear I've owned.

 

[nottskev]

I wanted to say that if anybody was disturbed to see grown men fighting over whether poles are any good for fishing with, it's all been sorted out. I had a long chat with Mike on the phone, and agreed a resolution. In future Mike will say these poles are useless and I'll say that's rubbish. And we'll carry on as normal. Move along. Nothing to see here.

 

[rayner]

Pole fishing is either love or hate for anglers. the fact that superior presentation is/can be guaranteed is neither here nor there. Pole fishing can not be beaten in some applications, I like wagglers fishing or bomb fishing, both fishing. Just a tad inferior. Inexperienced hands still get a very enjoyable experience learning with a pole. Rod and line are OK but far more than haphazard in presentation. It's true that only philistines will not use a pole. ?
This is only my interpretation, very far from written in law. Unfortunately, other opinions just do not count.
Only kidding, or am I.

 

[markcw]

AN EARLY GARBOLINO FIBREGLASS POLE.
NOTE THE WEIGHT COMPARED TO THE LENGTH.