Flies, are we lead by fashion?

[Ron Clay]

Have you noticed how fly patterns have changed over the years? Not always for the better however. Take buzzers for example. We are now told to use a pattern that is hard (the epoxy buzzer) I knocked up some of these flies a while ago and whilst I got plenty of takes, I found myself losing lots of fish. I've gone back to the old style of tying this pattern using soft materials for the bodu and ribbing with cock hackle stalk. The result - 23 trout caught abd released the other day. Other anglers using the modern tyings - 4 fish between 6 of them!

**** Walker had it right. Trout do hang onto a soft pattern longer.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

mmmm...interesting theory Ron. I would have thought that a hook wrapped in say seals fur would feel no different to one with just epoxy. The fur would colapse against the hook as soon as the trout closed its gob!!

HOWEVER....what if this was the case....the trout closes its mouth on the fur buzzer, realises somethng is wrong and tries to eject the fly. What I think happens is the fur gets slightly caught in the trouts wee teeth. This helps keep the fly in its mouth that fraction longer for u to strike. With an epoxy buzzer, I reckon the fly can slip out too easily

What do u think Ron?

 

[Ron Clay]

I think that whenever a trout takes a natural insect, with maybe the exception of snails and some beetles, it expects to find something soft in it's mouth. The timing involved between the take and the reaction of the angler to strike is enough for a trout to reject the fly. Hence the missed takes. There are of course some anglers who have the reaction of a striking cobra and the vision of a falcoln who can detect the take and strike before the trout ejects the fly. I don't have such reactions or eyesight. Therefore it certainly helps to have the trout hold on to the fly that little bit longer.

Often, during a side wind, a floating line is bowed out by the breeze and it can be very difficult to spot takes or feel them. Howver a soft fly does get held for just long enough for a visual indication or feel of the take. This usually results in a hooked fish

 

[Rob Brownfield]

I'm still not convinced u know. All I do know, is i seem to have the reactions of a sloth and the vision of a mole, and I still catch plenty (when I can be bothered to fish for rainbows) I think having fished for wild brownies for many years improved my fish spotting skills and I would strike at the flash of the white mouth rather than the pull on the line, if that makes sense. Dry fly fishing for Grayling in the winter sharpened my reactions.

 

[Ron Clay]

Obviously Rob you spend a lot of time fishing for wild browns on the rivers of Scotland. So would I if I lived there. I have done quite a bit of small stream fish in the Drakensberg of South Africa, for both wild brons and rainbows so I appreciate where you are coming from. There is a great deal of difference in fly fishing techniques on large reservoirs and even smaller lakes compared with streams.

By the way I am thinking of trying for pike later this year on the fly. Maybe you can give me some advice, but I will start a new thread under predators for this

 

[Rob Brownfield]

I shall have a wee look now on the Predator bit.

U should come to Aberdeen and have a bash at the Brownies on the Don, pretty good fun!

 

[Alan Roe]

Essentially trout have not changed much in the last few million years.
What has changed is the need for the angling press and the tackle trade to make money by persuading us that last weeks pattern will not work and we all need to buy this weeks flies or materials to tye same and of course the lastest copy of MEGALUREFLASH!!!!Magazine to learn 'How To Do It'!!!!!!!!
The function of the vast majority of fishing tackle is to catch ....Anglers!

 

[Ron Clay]

Absolutely 100% right Alan.

I've recently been reading several books on trout fishing. The only two which mean anything are **** Walker's Fly Fishing, two volumes, which comprise many of the article he wrote on the subject in the 70s and early 80s. Any fly fisher would do well to get these books and read all the home truths that are in them.

Surely the most innovative writing on UK style still water fly fishing ever published.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

A quick question....its fairly well accepted that fish do not have, or have very few nerve endings in there mouth. If this is the case, how can they tell the difference between a fur and feather fly, and an epoxy one?
Some days I have caught tens of fish on an epoxy or Ice buzzer, then on others, a standard seals fur buzzer works. I think its more likely that conditions/food source play more of a part then what the fly is made from.

The bestest ever dry fly I have used for Brownies was dressed on a size 18 hook. It had a metallic blue body with a metallic red butt, and a greenwells hackle. I caught loads of fish on them.

 

[Ron Clay]

I get your point Rob. But how do trout manager to eject flies as quick as they do?
I think there must be SOME sort of nerve ending in a trout's mouth. Really I don't know. There's an awful lot we do not know about fish I guess.
Possibly some sort of truth might come out of the debate.

 

[Ron Clay]

I@ve given this some further thought. In still water fishing the fliy or flies are often moved extremely slowly or not at all. The trout often have all the time in the world to inspect the fly. When they take it and it feel like something edible, they will hold on to it long enough to give an indication that can be struck at.
In rivers and streams the trout only has the one chance to take the fly and they do tend to grab it, but by that time it's too late. I am talking here about wet flies of course.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

I am not too convinced its the flies that cause the rejection. I actually think its the drag from the nylon leader. The trout takes, say, a buzzer. It's a very small fly that I very much doubt would actually touch much of the inside of a Trouts mouth when closed. As it moves off, it would feel a slight "drag" from the line. Now, say you are fishing 20 yards out, what with line stretch, wiggles in the line etc etc, The trout could move several inches before we feel a take. More than enough for it to work out something is wrong, as the Trout would feel drag instantly. Also, the trout would have to be moving away or to the left/right of us. If it moves towards us we would probably not actually feel anything.

What do u think?

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)]

And hence the need for the "dreaded bung".

This thread, in the light of the latest tackle developments probably needs resurrecting.