Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

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FishingMagic

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As a keen contributor and viewer of www.fishingmagic.com in the early 2000s, I wrote an article entitled, as I remember, ‘Putting the Record Straight’. It was my attempt to right the wrongs perpetrated by the Carp Society against the late Martin Gay who in 1989 caught on the simplest of methods a common carp weighing an estimated 52lbs but reported at 48lbs. This latter weight was chosen by Martin, a close friend, as one which would more readily be accepted by a cynical carp world. His fish had taken a brand new set of 50lb scales to the limit so that was its minimum weight and Martin felt there were at least another two pounds to go; but claiming exactly ‘50lb’ would, Martin felt, be seen as a little too ‘convenient’ so he stuck with the more ‘believable’ figure of 48lbs.



But that wasn’t good enough for one or more of the frustrated, green-eyed monsters in the Carp Society who denounced Martin’s contention that the fish was caught from an English water; they insisted it had come from Martin’s holiday destination of British Columbia and that the doctored photographs had ‘hidden’ a back-drop of the Rockies!
They stuck-with and unashamedly propagated this ‘explanation’ for 25 years, embedding their ‘truth’ in the carping world until 2014 when I became editor of Fishing Magic and set about putting them right with help from another of Martin’s old friends, Eddie Benham.

Together, we made the Carp Society’s ‘Steering Committee’ chairman look quite foolish and even compelled him to come up with an entirely different theory! The big common was NOT, apparently, caught from a lake in British Columbia but from the warm water outlet of a power-station on Lake Ontario – 2,000 miles from the Rockies!

This new and unequivocal ‘explanation’ was forced from him after Eddie and I revealed that no fewer than 13 of Martin’s fellow club members – including myself – had seen the original photographs and that the blanked-out backgrounds had shown nothing more than yellowing scrubland, a few bushes and a section of diamond fencing! Each of those members supplied us with a statement to this effect, crushing completely The Chairman’s bombastically-delivered theory about British Columbia…so now it was Lennox Power Station, Ontario, and a series of carefully concocted stories designed to substantiate his ridiculous claims. And ridiculous they were! We were even shown a photograph of the swim with an explanation of how Martin would have parked his car close enough to nip back for a bit of personal grooming before having his pictures taken! Every desperate attempt at being taken seriously was thwarted, largely by Eddie who had kept details and records showing Martin’s whereabouts as Chairman of the Moor Hall & Belhus Angling Society. Eddie even commissioned reports from a renowned botanist who refuted ‘The Chairman’s claim that the plants shown in the pictures did not grow in this country; furthermore, Eddie garnered reports from esteemed geologists who stated quite baldly that the stones and pebbles at Martin’s feet could not possibly be found on the shores of Lake Ontario! I have to say, I was – and still am – utterly amazed that a number of FM Forum contributors continued to express their doubts in the face of my and Eddie’s veritable cornucopia of solid evidence and our insistence that Martin simply would not have told blatant lies to those he and his wife regularly dined and socialized with.

At the time of this debacle, only a very few individuals knew of the venue’s location – and that is still the case. Now that Professor Barrie Rickards is dead, only Martin’s wife and five of Martin’s friends / associates know where it is – and three of us fish it.

It was actually me who showed Martin the water a few years before his historic captures were made so, yes! I do think he should have confided in me back in ’89! But he didn’t and it took a very long time for my suspicions as to its whereabouts to come good.

Here on the Welsh border (and despite Redmire being just an hour away) good carp fishing is at a premium; it’s all chub, barbel, pike and salmon (if we’re lucky) so being able to pursue a different species on a water, said by Martin back in ’89 to hold fish of 60lbs, is rather exhilarating! Identifying swims and features described by the man who broke **** Walker’s record is part of the fun and I can confirm his description of the water’s nature. It can – like he said – be seen from the road but nowadays it is overseen by state-of-the-art surveillance equipment: sad but necessary if it is to remain unexploited as Martin wished. I have seen many dozens of different fish – commons and mirrors – but nothing (as yet) approaching 50lb. Most are mid-doubles / low twenties though my fishing-buddie has had a thirty (a mirror) and a 23lb common. To date, my best common is 15lb, all fish caught on good old sweet-corn a la Gay.


From Coarse Angler Magazine 1989

My latest session took in two days and nights and for most of this time the water was worryingly dead…not a movement and not a bite; but then came the rain and stirred them into action. In the last twelve or so hours, I took an incredibly hard-fighting, scale-perfect common of 13.8 and three double figure mirrors to 16lb; I’d have had a fifth – a ten pound common – if I hadn’t left my rod for my pal to oversee while I took a leak.


21lb 8oz 2019

I’ve had fourteen fish this year and my pal, eight, I think; the best a 23lb common to his rod. Martin, too, had lots of fish of this size but they were punctuated by a good few 20lbers and five 30lbers plus The Big One: are the monsters still there? It’s my belief that the fish may have been so successful that the average size has dropped with the greater demand on the lake’s natural larder; there are tench present plus the usual cyprinids, but ultimately I have no idea!

I’d always had an idea of the water’s whereabouts since that day in ’89 when Martin knocked on my door with a folder of photographs under his arm but I dismissed it on the assumption that he’d return the favour I’d done in showing him the water in the first place! Even so, I could never have been sure enough to swear on oath in a court of law. Now that I know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, my mind boggles at the level of jealousy capable of fabricating such a damaging, outlandish and utterly baseless fairy story about a well-known and respected angler who bucked the trend and caught a whacker on simple gear and two grains of corn.





Source Article...
 
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bennygesserit

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being very ill for a long time my counsellor recommended Meditation and Sleep Made Simple - Headspace as a way to accept what you cannot change
and to enjoy life as it happened to you

I am in remission now - and it illuminates what is important in life and what isn't
I would honour your friend in your own way , ignore what others say , you will never achieve peace on the internet
 

Cliff Hatton

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Blimey, Benny...sorry to hear this but pleased to know you're on the mend. I understand the sentiment you express here and, quite honestly, I had similar thoughts as I wrote the article; its very brevity is, perhaps, indicative of this. Maybe there is a point at which we say 'nothing really matters' but this was a pretty big deal for many years and it needed closure. With any luck it'll all kick-off again when one of the privileged few reports a 60lber.....

Best wishes, Benny.
 

Peter Jacobs

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From Don Quixote . . . .

“Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them all.”
(Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra)
 

Windy

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Jealousy is a terrible thing.

Or was it misguided loyalty to Richard Walker ?

Sad story, to spoil something so special.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Windy: Martin wasn't a fan of the way things were going in the carp-fishing world and he knew that to disclose the venue would see it hammered so he kept it under wraps. This, and the fact that he caught all of his fish on such simple tackle, annoyed certain individuals so much that they felt compelled to rubbish his story. Sadly, their version was accepted by just about every carp angler in the country.

I've deleted the link I previously placed here; it was irrelevant.
 
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The bad one

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Heaven forbid is this site in that much trouble that yet again we've have to dig up the Gay saga? As Marvin said Mercy, Mercy me! Sh1t or get off the sodin' pot by naming the bloody water and we can have done with it!
 

Philip

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Oh dear.

Why didnt you provide the link to the thread you closed on the subject last time Cliff ? We were reaching an interesting point and then you abrutly closed the thread with no real explanation as to why.

Far simpler to just reopen that thread and we can all carry on were we left off last time.

Makes sense no ?

I would love the chance to dig a little deeper on the subject of the grey chain link fence,cream coloured sign and multicoloured kayaks in the photos.
 
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Cliff Hatton

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Hi, Phil! didn't think it'd take you long! :)

No, it wouldn't make sense. I'm never going to say where it is and that's that! The purpose here (Bad One) is to state categorically that I now know the water's whereabouts for sure and that I can be equally sure in my condemnation of the scurrilous rubbish that was peddled by ol' CoCo the Clown, as 'Nobby ACA' dubbed him. This really IS 'closure'.
 

Peter Jacobs

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The trouble is that neither side in this debacle are willing to compromise, hence my quote from Don Quixote; both are tilting at windmills.

The only way this would ever be concluded, one way or the other, is to either nane the venue and/or publish the original photos.

That neither are going to happen results in the continuation of what has all the elements of a feud.
 

The bad one

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Agree totally Peter and all this pot sitting and dragging the dead up is just chaff in the wind, or would be cr*p down the drain! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
 

Cliff Hatton

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You're wrong, Peter.
I've just told you that I know and fish the water which produced Martin's whacker. That's good enough.
 
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sam vimes

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That neither are going to happen results in the continuation of what has all the elements of a feud.
It's only really a fued if both sides go at it. The vast majority on here, whether they believe or not, are not part of the saga. Sadly, many of those that really were involved are no longer with us. The time is long past that this particular sleeping dog was left to lie. Nothing is going to change by it being dragged up every year or two.

Ultimately, if you really want angling fame, and to go down in history, you are going to have to accept that anonymity, for yourself and the waters you fish, will go out of the window. It's one of those cases of not being able to have your cake and eat it.

Personally, I can't think of anything worse than angling fame. I don't get what drives people to form and be part of bodies like the carp society. This might be a tad unfair on my part, but it all seems rather egotistical to me. It's possibly a tad hypocritical when I'm saying it on a public forum where I regularly post catch reports. However, there's little ego involved in them and I deliberately try to maintain as much anonymity as possible.
 

Cliff Hatton

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All those who involved themselves in the 2015 FM expose of the Carp Society's Paul Selman may be interested to know that the fool persists in peddling his ridiculous, malicious lies and fantasies through Facebook: astonishing!

On top of the cornucopia of facts, documents, testaments and expert evidence stacked against his truly infantile web of lies - plus being told that I am currently fishing Gaymire with his carp-fishing widow's blessing! - the carp world's Jester-in-Chief just won't give up. The 'Senior Lecturer in Law', continues to lie and will, hopefully, get his come-uppance at some time.

Some here will consider this petty, but you need to have crossed swords with this ridiculous bumbling, bombastic idiot to understand why he needs 'outing' once and for all.

Martin Gay was not just any old angler; he was particularly expert in all that he did and was the driving-force behind the pike-protection movement of the early 70s. He held a highly responsible position as bursar of London University and was a stickler for accuracy, honesty and truth. He wrote three pike-fishing books with the late Professor Barrie Rickards and revolutionized tench-fishing in the UK. All anglers of a certain age and pedigree know that Martin Gay was one of the leading, authoritative voices of his time.

Frustrated to the gills by Martin's refusal to divulge the location of his 50lb common carp capture (to the CARP SOCIETY!) Selman chose to manipulate and intimidate in order to establish his story for the nation's fascinated carp-fishing fraternity to absorb - and they did. Is this not a grave and serious travesty?

Consider just this - if nothing else! Selman is still telling the world (effectively) that Martin's whacker was caught from Lake Ontario and he does this with all the bombast and bluster and surety that has become his hallmark: "one million per cent!" he assured us in 2015.

So what happened to the "one million per cent" story he was peddling about the Rockies for the TWENTY-FIVE YEARS since 1989 until he learned in 2015 that 13 Moor Hall & Belhus Angling Club members had seen the original photos and unanimously agreed that they showed standard gravel pit / English lake surroundings and no hint of the mountains Selman so confidently told everybody about.

One day, I may just find the will to write the book, a copy of which must be lodged with The British Library. It'll be there for all time as a warning to other charlatans.
 
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fishface1

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Wow - you are fishing a lake with some carp in it. Definitive proof. I doubt the story no more....
 

Cliff Hatton

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Not just that, fishface, I fish 'Gaymire' and the very swims from which Martin made his historic captures. Didn't you read the article? And haven't you read the many articles from 2015 in FM archives? Take a look! I'd appreciate your considered comments. Better still, write us an article which addresses say...four...yes, just FOUR of the many critical observations Eddie and I made to expose the character and fantasies of the jealous Selman.

Can I count on you?
 

sam vimes

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Also interesting to note that Eddie Benham (I think) posted on this thread, yet that post has disappeared.
 
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