Greedy fishing clubs

[The bad one]

Problem is, angling politics is hard work.... Fishing is the fun bit and time is precious.

Chav, it is, but if you don't do it nothing will change... dayfacto you accept the way it is.

On the wider point of greedy clubs, if a club is well run and gains a good reputation you have Land Agents, owners contacting you to take on their waters, because of your Kudos as a club.

I know of a club who was courted several times over several years to take on a water by the owner before they said yes. The same club has turned down many waters it's been offered because they don't fit its portfolio and or there were problems with access, location, etc.

What many don't realise about owners is their need for security, particularly so if it's a farmer with 100's of K in plant, equipment, stock around their farm/land.
Rural crime is rife and millions of poundsworth of stuff get nicked every year.
So you can’t blame them for wanting a body that they perceive as having some control over, ie a club.
Where it’s a free for all and they have no control over who turns up to fish they feel vulnerable rightly or wrongly.
For many it’s a Catch 22, they may need the income from the fishing to stay viable, but also would prefer the security of not having anyone on the land. So for them the best option is to lease it to a club, where they feel they have some control.
If the owner gets this and no one fishes the length from the club that has control, then for them it’s a win win situation. Money and no one on the land!

It would be wrong to assume if a club didn’t have a length of river, or a water that it would automatically become available to the masses for fishing. The likelihood is it wouldn’t, not in today’s world.

 

[tiinker]

Problem is, angling politics is hard work.... Fishing is the fun bit and time is precious.

Yes fishing is fun but sometimes if you want your fun on a particular bit of water you may have to use angling politics to get it.:wh

 

[terry m]

Be careful what you wish for, the only real alternatives to angling clubs are syndicates - generally expensive higher end waters - and Day Ticket venues, becoming a less viable proposition - especially rivers - because so many people want to sit next to a muddy bowl.

Angling Clubs are generally great value for money generally offering a wide range of venues. Pay your money and take your chance, but balance the costs against watching a soccer match for 90 minutes or a rugby match for 80 minutes, then maybe you wont feel so hard done by!

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I have to admit that this is my biggest gripe too.

Without getting into the mind boggling spiral of pro's and con's of club control it's very off putting to know that there is probably more chance of you not being able to fish a fancied stretch of river than being able to, at least around here anyway.

What is heartbreaking is travelling to an accessible stretch in the early hours to get a decent beat when you know you are passing others that are far better and will not see an angler all day but you can't have a book because you don't live within a set radius.

We fell foul of it a couple of weeks ago purely as an honest mistake when fishing behind the Rolls Royce factory on the Trent... we had been given information but the wrong bank and after fishing all day we were eventually confronted by a verbal tirade from what I can only describe as a walking heap of tackle with a head sticking out despite there being no signage whatsoever about the stretch being under club control and day tickets only available in advance from the local tackle shop, as if that's practical when you live twenty miles away.

I actually got that fed up of his f'ing and blinding abuse that I began to make my way up the bank towards him to let him know face to face what I thought about the way he was articulating his objection but thankfully he turned and skulked off as I did so... still f'ing and blinding his abuse as he went.

What's the answer... anyone?

Some years ago I used to fish Ogston res which was run by Derbyshire AA (a very Elitist club, believe me!) and under an obligation to Severn Tent they would have to sell so many day tickets each week/day. One day I had gone down and bought said ticket and began to fly fish. I had been fishing for about an hour when I was approached by a very red faced guy, who I found out later, was the club chairman, a Mr Owen Handley) he said he had been watching me from the road and that I had been illegally wading and that I have to pack up and leave! I had not been wading has such as I was only stood about 6 inch from the bank in about 5 inch of water!

I found out later that this Handley guy hated having to sell day tickets to the ''riff raff'' that he would bend the rules on a whim just so he could kick the ''scum'' day ticket holders off!

Not a nice guy to have running an Angling club IMO

 

[bub81]

Really glad someone posted this.

The selfish empire builders at Ringwood and Christchurch clubs in the south are hugely guilty of this and are having a negative effect on young anglers who do not have rich parents.

Equally, they have many lovely stillwaters - too many for anglers to get around in one season, but it gives them an excuse for huge memberships fees. Literally only one or two have day tickets available.

 

[tiinker]

Really glad someone posted this.

The selfish empire builders at Ringwood and Christchurch clubs in the south are hugely guilty of this and are having a negative effect on young anglers who do not have rich parents.

Equally, they have many lovely stillwaters - too many for anglers to get around in one season, but it gives them an excuse for huge memberships fees. Literally only one or two have day tickets available.

I have just looked up Chritchurch and at £175 including joining fee that is less than £4 per week a junior ticket is £60 that is less than £1-50 a week.

 

[904_cannon]

Not true about city centre fishing being 'free'
Some might be but it depends who owns the access or indeed fishing rights. My club has to pay a small fortune (for us) for the water on the peninsula on which Durham Castle and Cathedral stand. Owned by The Dean & Chapter, University of Durham and also a couple of individual colleges. Four riparian owners for just one section of the river. Four different land agents and four lots of blood sucking solicitors, plus our own. On top of that there is very restrictive access 6 days a week and very expensive parking when it can be found.
Please don't talk about 'greedy' angling clubs.

 

[guest61]

Not true about city centre fishing being 'free'
Some might be but it depends who owns the access or indeed fishing rights.

Please don't talk about 'greedy' angling clubs.

I whole heartedly agree with this, I'm sure that there people who think that it should be free fishing through a town centre, but with cuts to funds, town councils are desparate to bring in other income streams and they will approach clubs if they can.

 

[tiinker]

I whole heartedly agree with this, I'm sure that there people who think that it should be free fishing through a town centre, but with cuts to funds, town councils are desparate to bring in other income streams and they will approach clubs if they can.

Very true the councils in my area are letting their waters out for about £1000 per acre this is in the london area.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Equally, they have many lovely stillwaters - too many for anglers to get around in one season, but it gives them an excuse for huge memberships fees. Literally only one or two have day tickets available.

The number of venues controlled by the 2 clubs is representative on the large membership that they have, and the diverse types of fishing that they offer.

At an average cost of £4.00 a week for a senior and £1.50 for a junior I reckon that we offer fantasitc value for money . . . . . . .

 

[dangermouse]

The number of venues controlled by the 2 clubs is representative on the large membership that they have, and the diverse types of fishing that they offer.

At an average cost of £4.00 a week for a senior and £1.50 for a junior I reckon that we offer fantasitc value for money . . . . . . .

That doesn`t look too bad depending on the waters the individual angler actually has the means to reach. When you consider the price of a day ticket £4 a week seems very reasonable.

Still a bit scary compared to the £15 a year I pay for my KDAA book. But then again we only have a couple of large sections of canal, a couple of miles of the Don and a small pond.

However I understand where the OP is coming from. Just up the road from me the right hand side of the Don is controlled by Bradford angling. Now I can`t see many people coming all the way from there to fish a few hundred yards of the Don and I know that no one around here is going to pay for a Bradford book when there`s nil chance of a bailiff coming round. So you do have to question Bradford`s reasons for paying for that stretch.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

That doesn`t look too bad depending on the waters the individual angler actually has the means to reach. When you consider the price of a day ticket £4 a week seems very reasonable.

Remember that we are talking about exclusive membership fishing on some of the very best coarse stretches of the The Stour, the Royalty, the Hampshire Avon, Throop, Ibsley, the Severals etc. not to mention numberous superb pits, lakes and ponds all in an relatively small area from, say, Christchurch up to Salisbury. From memory the CAC has a mebership in excess of 3000 and RDAA about the same.

Take a look: http://www.christchurchac.org.uk/

and at: Ringwood & District Anglers Association

If you join both you will have more fishing than you could ever need for around £8 a week . . . . A bargain for the same price as 20 ciggies?

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

If you join both you will have more fishing than you could ever need for around £8 a week . .

It'll cost him a bit in petrol and travelling time though - he live near Sheffield....oh just remembered he doesn't drive....could you drive up and give him a lift Peter?

 

[dangermouse]

It'll cost him a bit in petrol and travelling time though - he live near Sheffield....oh just remembered he doesn't drive....could you drive up and give him a lift Peter?

I drive, just don`t own a car atm.

 

[terry m]

Remember that we are talking about exclusive membership fishing on some of the very best coarse stretches of the The Stour, the Royalty, the Hampshire Avon, Throop, Ibsley, the Severals etc. not to mention numberous superb pits, lakes and ponds all in an relatively small area from, say, Christchurch up to Salisbury. From memory the CAC has a mebership in excess of 3000 and RDAA about the same.

Take a look: http://www.christchurchac.org.uk/

and at: Ringwood & District Anglers Association

If you join both you will have more fishing than you could ever need for around £8 a week . . . . A bargain for the same price as 20 ciggies?

Exactly right, and remember these organisations are not run for profit.

4 pounds a week for superb river and stillwater fishing - bit short on canals down here - ask yourself what can you get for 4 quid. A pint of Guiness and a bag of peanuts in my local.

 

[maverick 7]

Despite being a member of an Angling Club, I think they are one of the reasons why fishing numbers are in decline, particularly on rivers. They have taken up all the best stretches of rivers available and just left the dregs for everybody else.

This includes all those wishing to take up the sport but due to having only **** stretches of river to fish will, in all probability, not even bother visiting a river again.

The number of quality stretches of river I have witnessed that are totally deserted for miles and miles makes the whole issue completely farcical. It is a disgrace that great stretches of river are allowed to go to waste in this manner. It is high time something was done about it, but don't ask me what, I don't have a solution for the problem, other than it would be nice if all clubs was forced to day ticket their rivers.

People will argue about the litter etc that will be left by day trippers but even that has got to be better than total overgrowth and almost unfishable banks because nobody goes near the places anymore.

Maverick

 

[sam vimes]

Despite being a member of an Angling Club, I think they are one of the reasons why fishing numbers are in decline, particularly on rivers. They have taken up all the best stretches of rivers available and just left the dregs for everybody else.

This includes all those wishing to take up the sport but due to having only **** stretches of river to fish will, in all probability, not even bother visiting a river again.

The number of quality stretches of river I have witnessed that are totally deserted for miles and miles makes the whole issue completely farcical. It is a disgrace that great stretches of river are allowed to go to waste in this manner. It is high time something was done about it, but don't ask me what, I don't have a solution for the problem, other than it would be nice if all clubs was forced to day ticket their rivers.

People will argue about the litter etc that will be left by day trippers but even that has got to be better than total overgrowth and almost unfishable banks because nobody goes near the places anymore.

Maverick

Is that down to clubs controlling the waters or people being less interested in fishing rivers? Based on observations in my local area, where the river stretches have largely been controlled by the same clubs for the last thirty years, it's the latter. I even know of a stretch that is under the control of a village community. Only people from that village can legally fish there, for free. However, unlike when I was a kid, it's very rare to see anyone fishing (legally or not) there now.

I think it's worth stating that I'm not a committee type. I'm not even a member of a single club these days. However, I still don't believe that clubs are to blame for people not bothering to fish rivers any more. I'd also stress to those that are anti-club, be careful what you wish for. The idea that clubs disappearing, or losing control of waters, is going to make more water accessible to everyone is erroneous.

 

[maverick 7]

Hi Sam, I think you're right, it probably is that people are less interested in fishing rivers BUT I think club waters that are not being used should be utilised to their full potential. Why keep a perfectly good stetch of river under wraps for people that can't be bothered to use it?

I would like to say though Sam, that I never said clubs were to blame for people not fishing rivers. However, I would say that they are to blame for not opening their barren stretches of rivers that none or hardly any of their members ever use, to the public and at least giving the newbies a chance to decide whether they like river fishing or not, without the expense of joining a club.

I also hear what you are saying about the dangers attached to allowing things like this to happen and again, you're probably right but this cannot go on forever until there is no decent stretch of river to fish for the man in the street with no club attachment to his name, it simply doesn't seem fair.

I would be interested to know, what if a bankside on a club stretch of river were to collapse, would the EA repair it and which of their budgets would the money come from? It would hardly be fair if the money from licences were to fund the bank repairs and people who are not allowed to fish the stretch technically finish up paying for it.

Just a thought Sam.

Maverick

 

[sam vimes]

Hi Sam, I think you're right, it probably is that people are less interested in fishing rivers BUT I think club waters that are not being used should be utilised to their full potential. Why keep a perfectly good stetch of river under wraps for people that can't be bothered to use it?

I would like to say though Sam, that I never said clubs were to blame for people not fishing rivers. However, I would say that they are to blame for not opening their barren stretches of rivers that none or hardly any of their members ever use, to the public and at least giving the newbies a chance to decide whether they like river fishing or not, without the expense of joining a club.

Nice egalitarian notion, but hardly realistic, much as it might be nice. I suspect that nasty little real world practicalities like insurance, liabilities and landowners not wanting non-members anywhere near their land, will come into play. I think some of these reasons have already been answered earlier in the thread.

I also hear what you are saying about the dangers attached to allowing things like this to happen and again, you're probably right but this cannot go on forever until there is no decent stretch of river to fish for the man in the street with no club attachment to his name, it simply doesn't seem fair.

I would be interested to know, what if a bankside on a club stretch of river were to collapse, would the EA repair it and which of their budgets would the money come from? It would hardly be fair if the money from licences were to fund the bank repairs and people who are not allowed to fish the stretch technically finish up paying for it.

Just a thought Sam.

Maverick

Fair doesn't really come into it where money is concerned. For good or ill, we live in a capatalist society, not a communist one.
As for the bank side repairs, in the vast majority of instances the club concerned is not the landowner. If repairs were required it would fall to the landowner. However, in most instances, banks collapse all the time and nobody repairs them. Only where public or private properties/utilities are threatened is this a concern. However, the EA, if they are required to act, are government funded to meet such obligations where they have them. Money from rod licences wouldn't come into it.

 

[terry m]

You have a point Sam.

Not too far from me there is a free stretch of the Dorset Stour at Longham, for those who fish it, it fishes well and produces good barbel, chub, some roach and pike etc. Trouble is most of the time it is deserted. Why? Because river fishing is difficult and hard work when compared to some types of stillwater fishing.

Before we berate clubs for supposedly hogging the rivers it would be of benefit to understand the true supply and demand dynamics of this area of angling.