Steve this might seem extreme mate but dont laugh as I am told it works. Instant mash mixed up at home taken to the bank and used as a binder for your usual groundbait mix.Conventional way would be some strong leam or clay binder I imagine.Sensas used to do a special ground bait binder at one time but I'm dammed if I can remember the name of it!!
Not cheap, but it works!
Cheaper but more temperamental options: white crumb is another binder,but don't use too much or your groundbait will just sit there like enormous boilies! (about 1 part white to three brown is probably a good starting point); stale (not mouldy, just dryish) white bread, soaked, wrung out, and mashed, is a gentler one; I've read about mashed spud but not tried it. If you're throwing it in by hand, gravel can be added to nail the stuff to the deck; but I guess that with a pole you'd be able to use a feeder to deliver it spot-on.
Whoops, hit "Submit" too soon.
It might be worth giving Keith Arthur a call; some tidal Thames swims could be tackled the same way; I never cracked it but he will know the guys who did, and how they did it.
I've just had a dig in the shed and found half a bag - it's called Turbo+ and is by Van Den Eynde. One day when I feel rich I'll try the Sensas Fond as well.
Another option would be to forget the groundbait, use a bait-dropper to lay a bed of hemp and casters, then inch a caster over it with a lollipop float. Or an overshotted porcupine.
Another less expensive option might be to add leam to your brown crumb mix. This would make it sink quicker without adding to the amount of feed in the mix.
PV1 is a good binder and can be added to your ordinary mix as well.
If Van den Eynde still make it then River Ace with some PV1 will also fit the bill I would imagine, although I prefer Sensas I did use v.d.E originally.
A cheaper Sensas alternative would be to use 3000 Base Fond (70%) to say 3000 Gross Gardons (30%) and then use whichever Tracix colour you prefer. This mix still needs to be put through a sieve although you don't want too much air in the mix for obvious reasons, just lightly sieve to remove the lumps.
Granulated molasses sounds more breamy than roachy, but I'm no species snob (ask any gudgeon)- anyone seen it this side of the globe?
That reminds me, i've still got a bottle of the liquid to play with... must go and annoy some bream!
I am not familiar with the Green Bottom binder as a Sensas product at all.
Maybe it is a van den Eynde product?
During my early years in match fishing I used v.d.E extensively but then with the advent of a sponsorship I switched to Sensas. I had been toying with the idea for a season or two as I don't really like some of the added salt in v.d.E mixes.
If you have a good Sensas stockist then I do believe that you cannot beat thier range of mixes, additives, colourings, liquids and binders.
The problem these days is finding a decent stockist - I actually do buy a few products in France and take them home with me - the things we do for our fishing, right?
Im going back a few years Peter, when I used to match fish, suppose the product could have been discontinued now. I tend to do more speci fishing in the winter months now but this thread as been interesting as I must admit my groundbaiting knowledge is not what it used to be! Ive found the Dynamite tinned groundbait good for chubbing although its a bit expensive! I have to agree Ive done some pretty daft things for my fishing over the years so I guess youre right on that score. Ive found that Decatholon have some weird and wonderful French groundbaits (when they actually fill the shelves that is!) I think they must be a French owned company as a lot of the tackle and stuff as French instructions on.A trip to France for groundbait sounds so much better than a visit to the local tackle emporium to me though lol!!
I have been lucky enough to have been shown around the Sensas factories in the past and that was a real education. It is amazing to see what goes into even the "simple" mixes.
I tried the tinned groundbait a couple of times and agree with you that it is an expensive option, I far prefer to mix my own as it can be 'tweaked' to suit the prevailing conditions.
I work in Holland so I have easy access to France both by train and car so a couple of trips a year is no real problem and it does negate the frustrations of trying to order (and wait for ages) from my local shops.
Even though I stopped match fishing about 7 years ago I still use a lot of different groundbait mixes for my regular river fishing.
This is becoming a very informative thread; I'm still struggling to get repeatable results from bread and bran!
I'm reassured by what you say about continental groundbaits, Peter; the mistrustful cynic in me always assumed that they were brewed up by agri-barons looking for a way to get rid of various types of waste &/or by-products! "This stuff niffs a bit, wonder if those dozy anglers will buy it?" "Well, Boss, if ours don't, try labelling it 'carp' and flogging it to the rosbifs. If they grumble, you can always say it was a typo for 'crap'."
Continental ground baits, although loosing some popularity lately, are a fascinating subject.
Typically, the ready to use mixes are formulated to provide a certain degree of; strength, colour, texture and binding power that you require. Then there are the base mixes, colourings and additives both in powder and liquid form that can be used to make a bespoke ground bait to cover certain situations.
The Sensas factory at Fontenay/Eure, near Chartres is well worth a visit and is really informative. I learned that typically a specific mix can contain up to 22 different ingredients and to understand them all one needs to be a chemist
For repeatable results I would highly recommend either van den Eynde or Sensas mixes as these are carefully controlled in their manufacture and conform to rigorous standards.
If I ever get the time I have been thinking about writing a short series of articles on groundbaits but I wonder with the adveny of so many pellet and pastes being used these days if there would be any interest?