Has the Skill Gone Out of Fishing?

[Jeff Woodhouse]

You make it sound like a bolt rig is a bolt rig and any changes are just “variations” to the same thing…really ?

I don't think that's quite how Graham meant it.

I think the point he is making is that there seems to be a majority of anglers these days going after specimen fish and instantly turn to the one method of bolt rig type thing and a baked crumb on the end, be that cylindrical as in pellet or boiled and round as in .... a boily.

Struth, it woke me up to my own folly and I've been wondering why I've not been catching. It may or may not be that fact that I too have been opting for the easy (lazy if you like) way of sticking a boily or pellet on the end of a bolt rig.

Yes, it works on occasions and no shame using it when it's the best method for the situation, but the skills we learnt of using other baits and other methods are not so much being lost as disused, as far as I'm concerned. Don't want to say much more because a similar and follow up article is brewing in my head now, call it plagiarism is you like, but he nicked an article off me once.

Just to finish, I think that what he was driving at is that when these current generations of anglers are all dead an gone, our successors will know of no other way of how to fish. Mind you, imagine the fun they'll have discovering for the first time (?) that fish love maggots and how to trot a float. WOW!

 

[Dave Slater]

A very interesting article Graham. Lovely looking chub in the picture, and caught on traditional methods too, my kind of fishing.
Most anglers flock to the same places using the same methods and baits. This does not appeal to me at all. It is still possible to use traditional baits and methods with success fortunately, even on busy waters. I sometimes fish busy stretches but usually prefer to find somewhere quiet and use traditional methods. I love doing this as it can turn up surprises and, from a personal viewpoint, I get far more satisfaction from catching an unknown fish as this is always a great surprise and very exciting. If Ifish a popular stretch and use modern methods then I will eventually catch a fish with a name, which has been caught many times before. It just doesn't give me the same feeling of satisfaction, but each to their own.
The most skilful part of angling, for me, is using a thought process to catch a fish that would not otherwise be caught. This cannot be taught and comes from personal experiences learned over a period of time. I remember taking Mark Wintle on a perch fishing trip to the Ouse a few years ago. I found a large shoal of chub but could not catch them. Mark got his float rod out and used match tactics. Needless to say he caught a chub within minutes, only 4lb or so but a great result.

 

[Graham Marsden]

Philip
Graham

"I found it (my article) a bit disparaging to be honest Graham. There were a few things I did not really agree with but to save being too long I’ll pick up on a couple of points…

You make it sound like a bolt rig is a bolt rig and any changes are just “variations” to the same thing…really ?"

Yes, really.

"On that track I could argue float fishing is just about sliding my float up or down and moving the shot about …how happy would the float brigade be if I tossed those aside as mere ”variables” and not real changes ! … no skill there…"

That's a decent simplistic description of the variables in float fishing. But tell me, what variations are there in bolt rigs, apart from shape and weight of leger weight/feeder and length of hook link? There's a considerable difference between that and setting up a trotting rig for a river, say.

Incidentally, I'm a member of both the leger and float brigade, and I fish with both, probably more overall with leger, including bolt rig, than float fishing. I've got nothing at all against either.

"You also make the point about most of the records now go to bolt tactics but 25 years ago you could ague that 99% of those records you mention…barble, Bream, Carp, Chub etc … fell to “ledger” tactics .…its easy to pigeon hole if you want to…."

Bolt tactics are leger tactics aren't they, except one is a self-hooking rig? The point I'm making is that we fish with almost exactly the same approach for almost every species these days. Pick up a specialist angling magazine and read how to catch barbel, bream, carp, tench, etc........ In the vast majority of cases it's hair rig / bolt-rig and a boilie or pellet. It never used to be like that; there was a much greater variety of methods and baits.

"Things move on…I recall articles from 15 or 20 years back making exactly the same complaint about “ledgering” was killing off float fishing skills"

Legering didn't kill off float fishing skills but it certainly reduced the number of people who learned how to float fish.

"….plus another (in a mail year book I think it was) giving woe about how feeders (plastic pigs they called them) was the death of any skill needed to win a match on the Severn…"

Were they right? Which method won most matches on the Severn from the date of that complaint?

"Yet today if I put on my feeder and fish it running to bread flake on the hook and catch a monster chub I will be applauded by the same people for using a skilful non bolt tactic !"

I would definitely applaud you for using such a method and bait to catch a monster chub. That's my point in a nutshell! For one thing you had demonstrated more skill for you were almost certainly specifically targeting chub, and not hedging your bets by using a heavier bolt rig / hair rig pellet boilie combination that would also catch you barbel, carp..........

"Maybe in another 25 years when we have cameras on the rig linked to TV screens on the bank with instant hooking rigs activated by push button Wifi connections we will be applauding the virtues and "skills" of anyone using ineffective and old hat bolt rigs…"

You could well be right, and why not?

"To be fair I know were your coming from and truth be told I agree…skills are being lost but I do feel a compelling need to stick up for modern sit and wait tactics and baits as it seems to be the in vogue thing for everyone to slag it off yet at the same time everywhere I look people are using it !"

I think this is where you've made your mistake. I'm not slagging off any method or bait, especially ones I use myself on a regular basis. I've made the comment that the bolt rig / hair rig boilie or pellet combination that almost everyone uses to catch most of our bottom feeding species has reduced the skills we once needed to have to catch the same species.

The tone of your reply and the fact that you found my article 'disparaging' suggests that you haven't grapsed where I'm really coming from, so I'll repeat just one sentence from it:

"I’m with the rest of you, no different at all, using all the modern methods at my disposal. I’m merely highlighting a situation that grows worse(?) as we increase our knowledge of fish behaviour and further develop tackle and baits that increasingly replace individual skills."

No more, no less.

 

[dezza]

One thing that pleases me of late, is to see Martin Bowler advocating mainly *traditional styles of fishing rather than the obiquitous 5 "Bs". (Boilie, Bolt Rig, Buzzer, Bedchair Bivvie).

He does seem to me to be a genuinely talented all rounder.

*for want of a better word.

---------- Post added at 02:16 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------

One thing the bolt rig has done is the proliferation of the scenario where the bolt rigger goes to sleep in his bivvie with his rods out. This has been proven to myself on many occasions as it always seems when I pass near to a bivvie, the angler inside is asleep.

Some years ago whilst fishing with Peter Stone for tench in an Oxfordshire pit, I put the question to him regard bolt rigging.

Old Peter seemed to change colour, and he spoke angrily about what he described as a style of fishing he believed was illegal.

"It's nothing more than set lining" he said. He pointed to me a bylaw in the Thames Area which stated that methods that were desighed to cause a fish to hook itself were banned.

It would be interesting if some legal eagle were to investigate this law and try a test case out.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

"Ron said "It's nothing more than set lining" he said. He pointed to me a bylaw in the Thames Area which stated that methods that were desighed to cause a fish to hook itself were banned"

Were that true Ron then no form of ledgering would be permissable because it is 'set lining' to catch fish, the time it takes to catch said fish is neither here nor there and what you sit on or in is of little consequence. Ledgering in any form is a trap to catch fish if you think about it.

Graham. In a sense you are right I suppose because newcomers do tend to favour chuck it and wait tactics these days at the expense of learning to float fish as well but the call of the big hard fighting fish like carp and barbel must be hard for a youngster to resist. The various pictures of what are in essence 'average sized barbel' (the record is 21lb-ish so the average is 10lb-ish) must look massive to youngster who has only ever caught a tiny perch on the cut with his mates. I always seem to bang on about match fishing just lately but if every newcomer to the sport started out match fishing at club level he would automatically learn the art of ledgering and floatfishing, which are, contrary to popular belief, very viable options to the match angler. I am of the opinion that a competing angling will learn more about the various methods available than an angler who starts out by carp fishing and nothing else.

 

[dezza]

I think there is an enormous difference between certain types of legering and bolt rigging.

For example the most common types of legering involving sliding link leger, sliding bombs or feeder or even freelining involving a bite indication system which can be a quiver tip, rod tip, swing tip, dough bobbin, swinger, ring of foil, or even bite alarm that moves or sounds, indicating a bite, prior to the angler setting the hook by striking. And an enormous amount of skill is often required by the angler when timing that strike.

A true bolt rig system causes the fish to be hooked without the need to strike, or the need for any skill of course!

For many years many anglers thought that legering meant fishing without a float.

 

[Skoda]

Really interesting article Graham; I’ve got to agree with everything you’ve said. It’s what I was writing about in “Fishing Heaven or Hell”; ultimately, as tackle and bait technology advances catching fish will become much easier; it’s inevitable. The question to ask ourselves then is: “How do you measure success in angling?”

Personally, I’ve always considered a day’s fishing as an extended picnic, with something to do between the sandwiches and drinks! But I hate being water-licked so would I succumb to the temptation of using an ultra modern method? Too right!

Andy

PS: I've never used a bolt-rig, it always seemed a bit like cheating to me! But I've missed a few bites when my mates were catching around me!

 

[Philip]

I was'nt going to reply again on this thread and have sent Graham a private message but I can't sit here silently without passing comment on a couple of replies since then…

“Bolt rigging seems a bit like cheating”

….well in that case give up fishing because a 2 oz roach picking up your laid on bait under your crow quill is hooking itself against your BB shot on the bottom. -BOLT RIG- …your cheating !

And Ron dragging up the old chestnut about set lining….

….Wasn’t it also Peter Stone or perhaps Fred J who said “we put back stops behind our bombs on the Ouse as we knew doing that would lead to better bites”…”we had in fact created the modern bolt rig even if to our shame we did not realize what it was”

I’d wager that many of the fish caught back then were in fact self hooked anyway…we just understand better how its actually working today.

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Some years ago whilst fishing with Peter Stone for tench in an Oxfordshire pit, I put the question to him regard bolt rigging.

Old Peter seemed to change colour, and he spoke angrily about what he described as a style of fishing he believed was illegal.

"It's nothing more than set lining" he said. He pointed to me a bylaw in the Thames Area which stated that methods that were desighed to cause a fish to hook itself were banned.

It would be interesting if some legal eagle were to investigate this law and try a test case out.

This story comes to you folks, courtesy of the man who brought the bolt rig to this country - Mr Ron Clay.

 

[Graham Marsden]

….Wasn’t it also Peter Stone or perhaps Fred J who said “we put back stops behind our bombs on the Ouse as we knew doing that would lead to better bites”…”we had in fact created the modern bolt rig even if to our shame we did not realize what it was”

I’d wager that many of the fish caught back then were in fact self hooked anyway…we just understand better how its actually working today.

I don't want to discredit Ron in any way but I really don't think any one person was responsible for the bolt rig. I did my own experiments with 'increased resistance' (I'll dig out the article I wrote at the time I was doing my trials if I can find it) long before the term 'bolt rig' was coined, and I have no doubt I wasn't the only one.

The bolt rig wasn't actually invented, it evolved, and many anglers chipped in with their own findings until someone put it all together and coined the phrase 'bolt rig'.

And Philip is right when he says we were self-hooking fish long before the bolt rig evolved, and I've often wrote that there is no such thing as a true running leger rig - almost always the lead moves and the fish hook themselves.

But again I have to say that the main point of my article is being missed (probably my own fault for not making it clear enough) in that I contend that most bottom feeding species are being fished for with what I call the standard method and the standard bait. There is much less variety and much less skill involved than there used to be, and that's a fact.

Nevertheless, there will still be anglers who will get the best out of what's available and catch more than most.

I look forward to the article that Philip is currently writing that will give 'the other side of the coin' to which I contend that there isn't one, as I reckon I've stated a fact rather than an opinion.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

A very interesting article Graham. Lovely looking chub in the picture, and caught on traditional methods too, my kind of fishing.
Most anglers flock to the same places using the same methods and baits. This does not appeal to me at all. It is still possible to use traditional baits and methods with success fortunately, even on busy waters. I sometimes fish busy stretches but usually prefer to find somewhere quiet and use traditional methods. I love doing this as it can turn up surprises and, from a personal viewpoint, I get far more satisfaction from catching an unknown fish as this is always a great surprise and very exciting. If Ifish a popular stretch and use modern methods then I will eventually catch a fish with a name, which has been caught many times before. It just doesn't give me the same feeling of satisfaction, but each to their own.
The most skilful part of angling, for me, is using a thought process to catch a fish that would not otherwise be caught. This cannot be taught and comes from personal experiences learned over a period of time. I remember taking Mark Wintle on a perch fishing trip to the Ouse a few years ago. I found a large shoal of chub but could not catch them. Mark got his float rod out and used match tactics. Needless to say he caught a chub within minutes, only 4lb or so but a great result.

Dave's comments, above, say it all for me.

The use of Pellet has, to a great extent, "dumbed-down" some of the skills associated with coarse Fishing - but as Dave says; each to their own, and I will happily fish out my days with 'traditional' baits and methods, and if that means a few less fish at the end of the day, then so be it.
After all, it is called fishing, not catching, isn't it?

 

[Graham Marsden]

Yes, Dave made some good points. It's one of the reasons I stopped fishing a certain stretch of the Dove for several years. It held the biggest fish in the Dove but I got much more enjoyment fishing for smaller fish on the upper Trent, and still do, even though it entailed another 20 miles on my journey.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Carp Fishing (for me anyway) almost made me fall out of Love with fishing.

Endless hours of sitting there waiting for my alarms to go off, just really bored me silly, and i actually didn't look forward to going fishing.

I sold all my Carp Gear, then i bought, a 13ft Float Rod, a 12 ft Feeder Rod, some reels and a Rod Bag and started to teach myself how to Float Fish and Feeder Fish.

I may still not catch a lot of fish, compared to some people, but, watching the float or the Feeder tip for me keeps me content and almost mystified to a point, which Carp Fishing just never did for me.

I also have several Poles now as well, and learning how to do that was and still is challenging for me.

I would still go Carp Fishing, but, i wouldn't have it as my main, and only, approach to fishing.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Graham, you are confusing this old man (not hard these days) what is different about todays commonly used rigs that is so vastly different to the days pre arlesley when we used coffin leads since we are constantly told that even using a running bomb/flat lead/feeder is in itself a bolt rig because the fish hooks itself against those things. Ok we never had alarms but we had bite indicators such as bobbins and butt indicators that, though less costly and less intricate, still did the job they were designed for i.e. showing bites, I bet you used one when you ledgered your gentles!

What I am trying to say is that though the modern way entails great expense the end result is pretty similar don't you think?

 

[Philip]

Graham, you are confusing this old man (not hard these days) what is different about todays commonly used rigs that is so vastly different to the days pre arlesley when we used coffin leads since we are constantly told that even using a running bomb/flat lead/feeder is in itself a bolt rig because the fish hooks itself against those things. Ok we never had alarms but we had bite indicators such as bobbins and butt indicators that, though less costly and less intricate, still did the job they were designed for i.e. showing bites, I bet you used one when you ledgered your gentles!

What I am trying to say is that though the modern way entails great expense the end result is pretty similar don't you think?

Exactly, its down to perceptions. Are we really fishing so much differently to 30 years ago or is it that we simply better understand nowadays why the rigs and tackle is working as it does and as a consequence changing the setup to maximize the benefits.

So perhaps its not about losing skills its about doing what we were always doing and gaining NEW knowledge(skill!) to boot

Anyway, as Graham mentioned I will try and put an article together.

 

[Graham Marsden]

Let me try it this way.

Pick up a coarse fishing magazine from 30 years or more ago and you would be likely to read articles like this:

• Tench fishing where the author fished close in with a swingtip and a light leger rig and a bunch of maggots on a 12s hook, or a worm tipped with sweetcorn.
• Bream fishing with a fixed paternoster and bread flake, light bobbin indicators so the merest twitch bite would register. The swim had been prebaited with groundbait for three weeks from a rowing boat.
• Chub fishing with a swan shot link leger to a very short hook link, with a 6s hook loaded with crust so that it was popped up two or three inches off bottom.
• Fishing for carp in the margins using black-eyed beans as bait. Tackle was a bolt rig and the bait was hair rigged.
• Barbel fishing with a block-end feeder with caster and hemp, a 14 hook and two caster as bait.

Now pick up a modern coarse fishing magazine, and you’re likely to read articles like this:

• How the author catches bream by feeding his swim with a spod, bait is a boilie on a hair rig presented on a Method (bolt) rig.
• Tench fishing at long range with a boilie as bait, presented on a bolt rig, pellet feed was introduced with a spod.
• Chub fishing with a (short) hair rigged pellet to a bolt rig, main line and hook length are at least 10lb in case a barbel takes the bait.
• Barbel fishing with hair rigged pellet to a bolt rig, main line and hook link are at least 10lb.
• Carp fishing with a hair rigged boilie to a bolt rig, feed pellets and boilies spodded to the swim.

 

[dezza]

Just to take one species as an example.

Since 1994, I have caught hundreds of tench, many of them in excess of 7 and 8 pounds, best 8 3/4 lbs.

Virtually ALL of them have been taken on float tackle using maggots, casters, redworms, bread or sweetcorn for bait.

DO we HAVE to use those terrible bolt rigs, boilies, sleeping on a bedchair in a bivvy waiting for a set of buzzers to bleep the fact that another hapless "specimen" has hooked itself?

Do we allow anglers to fish with maggots on a fly only trout water?

Perhaps we should be looking carefully at how all of us view the sport we love. Do we really want to catch fish at all costs?

 

[slime monster]

There are a lot of anglers out there who like me are not mainstream and have not gone completely turned their backs on what are now termed traditional baits and methods most in my findings are ex matchmen who now just go fishing ,yes most are getting on in years but I sense a change of view coming from the younger generations ,I have seen lads maggot waggler fishing and on talking to them they are disillusioned with sitting it out for carp . The press talk about Carp anglers Specimen anglers and pleasure anglers ,me I am just a general angler who obviously gets some pleasure from it using floats and traditional feeders without a pellet or boilie in sight and up to now I do not feel I am missing anything , then again I am an old get.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Don't ignore using a Boillie / Pellet on a Bolt Rig approach in your Angling Armoury.

I just think it is a shame if it is the only Armoury in your Angling.

If you have only ever Carp Fished, then that's all you know, and if all they do is Carp fish, that is probably all they only need to know.

I would love to learn how to fish a stick float, or how to perfect fishing a waggler on a still water, infact there is loads i would love to learn, all i need is, the time, the money, the experiance and the drive ................ not a tall order then. :wh

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Just to take one species as an example.

Since 1994, I have caught hundreds of tench, many of them in excess of 7 and 8 pounds, best 8 3/4 lbs.

Virtually ALL of them have been taken on float tackle using maggots, casters, redworms, bread or sweetcorn for bait.

DO we HAVE to use those terrible bolt rigs, boilies, sleeping on a bedchair in a bivvy waiting for a set of buzzers to bleep the fact that another hapless "specimen" has hooked itself?

Do we allow anglers to fish with maggots on a fly only trout water?

Perhaps we should be looking carefully at how all of us view the sport we love. Do we really want to catch fish at all costs?

Quite right Ron, that's what we need...... more bans, there just aren't enough of them in angling.