Has the Skill Gone Out of Fishing?

[904_cannon]

I must be caught in a time-warp as Grahams examples from 30 years back fit my fishing exactly, except I've hardly ever fished still waters, apart from again almost 30 years ago, when we used to fish Loch Maben for the bream.

I'm not sure whether I should admit it but I've never owned a bivvy or bite alarm and the only concessions made to long stay fishing was heavy duty sheets of polythene over the brollies weighted down with boulders on the banks of L Maben, although we would spend as much time in the pubs with Paddy the bailiff drinking Drybroughs Light as we would fishing.

I never really got the matchman out of my system though as even now with a knackered back and two knees that have a mind of their own I usually take 3 times more tackle than I need to.

If I was still able to I'd still prefer wading and fishing a stickfloat (most of the rivers I've fished don't have close in swims with undercut banks) or free-lining bread/crust for chub than sat watching/feeling for a bite.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Why do people find it necessary to disparage the way other anglers choose to fish.

Almost every time a thread of this nature comes up people jump on the lets pick on the carp angler band wagon. I personally don't fish for carp in a concerted way, but I don't find the need to constantly criticise those that do.

It's ironic that there was a thread on here recently about snobbishness in angling. It's also ironic that the electronic bite alarm was invented by none other than the esteemed Mr Richard Walker and bottom fishing for carp was also popularised by the same gentleman.

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Do we allow anglers to fish with maggots on a fly only trout water?

No, if we did there would be none left for the fly fishers.

 

[slime monster]

Why do people find it necessary to disparage the way other anglers choose to fish

Why indeed it would be a sad world if everyone was the same and did the same things which as I read it is the point of this thread

 

[The bad one]

Now it my turn! Wasn't going to post on this thread but some things have been written, so I will.
I fish from April until September for bream and tench twice a week. Roughly 50 sessions. Never use bolt-rigs don't see the need, sometimes use hair rigs, use bite alarms, bivvy, stove and all the ills Ron bangs on about......Oh and I go to sleep as well. Never not been on the rods in less than 5 seconds Ron!
Sleeping bags thrown over me not zipped, bivvy door is a burst out type and I wear neoprene socks when I go to sleep so I can just walk/run out of the bivvy to strike into a fish.

When I'm not a sleep Ron, I sit on my chair just behind the rods with my trainers and baseball hat on. Sometimes I'll read a book waiting for my trap to be sprung, or just sit there watching the world go by living in my head, and/or watching the water the wildlife, or may be, I'll be listening to the radio on headphones.

Graham what's wrong with spodding? No different than using a catty or throwing stick for putting balls of bait in, or using a rowing boat for the same purpose is it? The latter two you've used down the years, have you not? If anything, spodding is more accurate than a catty or throwing sick, and you know that accuracy is one of the critical factors in catching both bream and tench. And unlike most, I'm one mean son of a ***** when it comes to using a catty at 60-70 yards.

You made reference to boilie and pellets accounting for many of the two afore mentioned species. Why is that Graham? The reason being because most waters that contain them, now also have carp in them and are fished by said carp anglers more than any other type of angler. And the baits they're putting in are those types of baits. Ergo, the fish are switched on to them and if you want to catch them, then that's the way you have to fish for them from June onwards. Prior to June, you'll catch them on traditionals, but once the carpers have been on for 2-3 months and put in anything up to 10 k a session, they're switched on to them. And that Graham is on all the meres within the sound of gunshot of the Swan Pub.
Why, even the pleasure anglers on a day breaming session are using soft pellets these days!

Long-range tenching on many of the large pits in the northwest, the tench are round the bars and pits have bars in them at any distance. The 10 1 that I had that appears on this site came from a bar at 90 yards on worm as it happens. But that was in May within the traditional bait time frame. Had it been July it would probably have been boilie because on that water that's what the fish are having.
Do I like having to use scale down carp tactic to catch bream and tench?
NO of course I bleeding don't!
But if that's the only way you can catch fish consistently, then that's what you have to do.
I go fishing primarily to catch fish, and if I'm not catching to the level I believe I should be doing, then I'll change my bait tactic accordingly. Does that make it less skillful? I'm not sure it does, as the skill come from knowing when to change fished bait tactics.

 

[Graham Marsden]

Mr replies to Phil in bold red.

Graham what's wrong with spodding? No different than using a catty or throwing stick for putting balls of bait in, or using a rowing boat for the same purpose is it? The latter two you've used down the years, have you not? If anything, spodding is more accurate than a catty or throwing sick, and you know that accuracy is one of the critical factors in catching both bream and tench. And unlike most, I'm one mean son of a ***** when it comes to using a catty at 60-70 yards.

Nothing wrong with spodding, I do it myself, as well as by catapult, throwing stick, by hand, feeder and PVA. I never once said I didn't spod, or that I didn't like it.

You made reference to boilie and pellets accounting for many of the two afore mentioned species. Why is that Graham? The reason being because most waters that contain them, now also have carp in them and are fished by said carp anglers more than any other type of angler. And the baits they're putting in are those types of baits. Ergo, the fish are switched on to them and if you want to catch them, then that's the way you have to fish for them from June onwards.

Agreed. I've not said any different.

Prior to June, you'll catch them on traditionals, but once the carpers have been on for 2-3 months and put in anything up to 10 k a session, they're switched on to them. And that Graham is on all the meres within the sound of gunshot of the Swan Pub.

Prior to June and after June the great majority of anglers nationwide are using boilies and pellets for everything that swims apart from predators. I never said there was anything wrong with that, just that most angler's bait choice is now so narrow the skill in deciding on which bait to use is also narrowed.

Why, even the pleasure anglers on a day breaming session are using soft pellets these days!

My point exactly.

Long-range tenching on many of the large pits in the northwest, the tench are round the bars and pits have bars in them at any distance. The 10 1 that I had that appears on this site came from a bar at 90 yards on worm as it happens. But that was in May within the traditional bait time frame. Had it been July it would probably have been boilie because on that water that's what the fish are having.

Again, you're referring to a personal approach. Nationwide it's very different, for most anglers use pellets and boilies all year round. Nothing wrong with that, but again, my point is that these days MOST anglers don't even think about it but just reach for the 'standard' bait.

Do I like having to use scale down carp tactic to catch bream and tench? NO of course I bleeding don't! But if that's the only way you can catch fish consistently, then that's what you have to do.

No argument there, so do I a lot of the time. But that wasn't my point was it?

I go fishing primarily to catch fish, and if I'm not catching to the level I believe I should be doing, then I'll change my bait tactic accordingly. Does that make it less skillful? I'm not sure it does, as the skill come from knowing when to change fished bait tactics.

Ah, at last, you got it in one! That's exactly what I'm saying.

Most anglers simply don't change their tactics and bait - ever! 'Standard method, standard bait' - hair rig / bolt rig, boilie / pellet. End of.

 

[dezza]

And let's face it, old Phil is a very special person being able to awaken, be out of his bivvy and on the job in seconds. Phil I salute you!

Most others sleep the sleep of the dead!

And of course if we allowed trout fisheries to be fished by all methods the numbers of trout would quickly be depleted and the stocking costs as well as the charge for the fishing would escalate.

 

[Dave Slater]

It would be very sad if the day ever came when there was only one effective bait and method. Fishing would become very boring. I do not think we should decry any particular branch of the sport or method, each to their own, but no method should take over at the cost of others.
I was considering opting for the pellet approach this season as I have not done much chub fishing during the summer lately and I know that this can work very well. I stuck to traditional baits and methods and am very glad that I did as my results have been excellent. Others I know have done very well on modern baits and methods. This is great as it means we can fish in a variety of ways with success. If my float fishing was as good as somebody like Mark Wintle I am sure that I could have done equally well for big fish using match tactics.
It is possible to fish differently to others on carp waters and I had a couple of good catches of carp in the close season float fishing lobworms in the margins while others on the lake were catching nothing. I know some young carp anglers who only fish long sessions fishing at range and rthey do not know what they are missing.
If ever fishing becomes a one bait, one method sport I will pack it in but, fortunately, I am sure this day will never come.

 

[dezza]

Let's hope not Dave.

 

[Graham Marsden]

If ever fishing becomes a one bait, one method sport I will pack it in but, fortunately, I am sure this day will never come.

I agree Dave, it won't ever come for many anglers but for some it's already here.

 

[dezza]

And it's not just in coarse fishing either!

There are now large numbers of stillwater "fly fishers", doing nothing more than using blobs with DI 5 lines, pumping them back as fast as possible with the dreaded hand over hand (roly poly) retrieve.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Why is it that Ron, who spent the last five or six years banging on about specimen angling and how innovative it is and how they developed the type of angling we have today has suddenly decided that specimen anglers are no longer "Proper" anglers? I suppose the fact that he is no longer capable of fishing rivers and indulging in specimen angling and resorted to throwing bits of fluff all the time couldn't be the ruling factor could it?

In pursuit of our sport we all make choices and providing it isn't harmful to the fish or the environment we should be allowed to do it without the sort of misguided comments that Ron comes out with all the time, would that he realised how it demeans him in the eyes of readers.

 

[dezza]

Oh dear, how people misunderstand.

I never in my life said that the way that specimen angling has developed is the right way. As regards the bolt rig, all I ever did was to describe what I saw, try it for myself and when I found it worked very well, catch a lot of fish.

But in time I found the method boring and as we go fishing to get the satisfaction out of overcoming problems, I gave it up.

And it's you that are misguided Graham.

And I've never liked the term: "Specimen Hunter", even though I formed a Specimen Group many years ago.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Where did I say 'specimen hunter' then Ron? I said specimen anglers and angling if you read it properly.

 

[dezza]

Same thing!

The word "Specimen" is common and angling is just another form of hunting - innit?

The word: "Specimen", in angling terms is in my opinion wrongly used.

Would you call a pregnant ancient obese flabby woman a perfect "specimen" of humanity?

Yet many anglers of today hold up the equivalent in a fish as a "specimen" of the species.

 

[Mark Wintle]

The average angler never was particularly skilled...

"I wonder if the decline in catches, compared with those of fifty or more years ago, is entirely due to the absence of fish, or reduction in their numbers, or whether it is because modern anglers can't fish as well as their grandfathers could?"

Mark Wintle 2009? No, **** Walker November 11, 1954 in Angling Times.

I think that the average anglers have always been content to follow the crowd using methods that are reasonably straightforward, and provided he enjoys some success, is happy with a method that takes the thinking out of it, which is why the modern one method/bait fits all is attractive. It doesn't take much thought, works occasionally and deals effectively with big fish. The equivalent on the waters I fish when I started (1969) was trotting with a porcupine quill, double maggot on a 16. In other areas there would have been variations on this but a similar approach. Pit the average anglers against the experts (the ones they like to pretend don't exist because it would mean admitting other anglers are better in terms of skill and knowledge) and their inadequacies are quickly shown up.

I fish a wide variety of baits and methods including using pellets and boilies and there are many situations where their use is advantageous in outwitting the big 'uns and staying clear of tiddlers which is part of what it's all about?

 

[dezza]

The modern one bait one method style of fishing as Mark describes it is now used by so many people that the laws of probabilities will dictate that big fish are going to be caught with this method.

Do you know that a wheel has turned full circle? Way back in 1952, Walker explained that the standard method used then by the vast majority of coarse fishers was again due to probabilities going to be successful from time to time. And when it was, it was held up as being the most efficient method. What was the standard method then?

A spliced whole cane/split cane float rod, 2 1/2 to 3 lb line, a float and a 16 hook to 6x.

There is no doubt in my mind that throughout angling history the average angler has desired a standard method he can buy, put together and use to catch a fish without the exertion of too much skill or know how.

Walker's attitude to angling was to start with the basics: rod, line, reel, hook and only add other items if they were necessary. In Walker's day, it was extremely rare to see anglers travelling to a fishing spot with all their tackle made up and ready.

Today you see this often, even amongst specialist anglers, just as you saw it in the pre-Walker days.

And in the fly fishing world it's much the same. Watch a group of competition reservoir anglers making their way to the boat dock. Virtually all of them will have a rod made up with a DI 5 line and two blobs, one orange and the other green on the leader.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

 

[The bad one]

Walker's attitude to angling was to start with the basics: rod, line, reel, hook and only add other items if they were necessary. In Walker's day, it was extremely rare to see anglers travelling to a fishing spot with all their tackle made up and ready.

Today you see this often, even amongst specialist anglers, just as you saw it in the pre-Walker days.


Makes you think, doesn't it?

Ron why does it matter how the angler takes his tackle to water? Because Walker didn't do it? Bollox the man's been dead for years and angling has moved on light years since.

A mate of mine (young guy) takes his tackle made up because he has little time to fish, which he loves, (family guy, young kids actively involved with his kids). So by taking it made up, it maximises the time he can spend fishing.

 

[noknot]

With all respect to the "modern" pioneers of angling, why must we always look back at the past? It's gone and will never return! The reason why is that it has been left behind in the mist of time, as have their, tackle baits and methods, as so have some of the posters? The pioneers did a fantastic job (given their understanding of species, at the time) and we owe them a debt of thanks, however, there have been many top class anglers that have left them way behind, through skill and understanding the fish they want to catch.
Tackle does not catch the fish, the angler using it does!

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Soon there'll be that many memory lanes on FM we'll only be able to travel by horse and cart.

 

[The bad one]

soon there'll be that many memory lanes on fm we'll only be able to travel by horse and cart.

nail head!