If commercials never existed

[S-Kippy]

As I've said before when I first started a "commercial" would have seemed like heaven to an aspiring angler. A lot of the waters I fished during my apprenticeship have either gone or changed completely....like eg from a great tench water to an out and out carp fishery. I belong to clubs where you would be hard pressed to distinguish their waters from a commercial. I've no doubt the commercial has been a good thing for angling...whether you choose to fish them a lot, occasionally or never is up to you AND what else is on offer that gets you going. There are too many carp waters near me (imo) but carp anglers would almost certainly disagree.

I dont fish out and out commercials very often any more but sometimes I just need my wire pulling and put up with some of the nonsense to be found bankside. That said....I am sure that advancing years will eventually mean that the safe parking,flat banks and ability to virtually fall out of my car and fish will become very attractive....and if it keeps me fishing for a few years longer then so be it. I simply cannot lug 40lb of gear a mile over rough ground to fish a favourite spot any more.

And I agree with Chris about the single species/method/water thing. I need to do different things after a while,a new challenge if you like, or things get very dull and I lose interest. I'm in one of those ruts at the moment but am struggling to think of something new to get me going again.

 

[sam vimes]

The other strange psychological aspect of fishing that I'm finding applies to me is that I'm increasingly concerned with angling aesthetics. I'm not at the Tweed, cane rods and wishing I was born in 1920 extreme, but it's difficult to deny that an insistence on floatfishing and using centrepins (at least on flowing water) is part and parcel of the same thing.

I agree with Chris about the single species/method/water thing. I need to do different things after a while,a new challenge if you like, or things get very dull and I lose interest. I'm in one of those ruts at the moment but am struggling to think of something new to get me going again.

Though not deep in a rut at the moment, I'm sliding gently into one at the moment. Late summer doldrums that regularly afflict the fishing I have available to me locally. The tench have shut up shop on the syndicate and the grayling haven't yet dropped downstream on the rivers. What's left is relatively uninspiring small stuff. I'm actually considering going to my roach water early. I'll probably struggle to avoid the ravenous carp at this time of year, but at least I'll get my sting pulled by something over 2lb. I may even have to take a trip somewhere a fair distance from home. I'm even considering one of the big local commies. A change is as good as a rest!

 

[S-Kippy]

I really am at a loss to know where to go and what to go for atm. Too early for my autumn carp trips, fed up with the crowds at Godalming, I know of some huge barbel on the Thames but too many boats yet, too early for Zander or the mythical big roach on a club water. Carp still too active on local commies to target perch. Little wonder I’m fed up....I just cannot be bothered to drag myself and my gear out to catch a few bits.

 

[steve2]

Without commercials the number of people fishing would I believe be reduced by 100000's. The majority that now fish commercials would never have taken up fishing. They like the facilities and wouldn't be seen on natural waters. Even waters like Redmire Pool are now run along commercial lines, with day tickets, prepared swims to fit in bivvy etc. Some of my club waters have now gone from balanced fishery to being full of easy to catch fish in order to compete with commercials. People now expect to catch carp every time the go.


Tackle shops struggle because fishing now based around a single species. Commercials even have there own species. F1 specially bred for to not get too big for match anglers. Catch them quick and fill your net.

So if commercials never existed fishing would be much the same as 50 years ago with less anglers.

 

[Philip]

I can't fathom how you might believe that 99% of waters are genuinely commercial

Based on someone in the chain making money out of them.

Whether that makes them a "genuine" commercial or not is a different question as there is no standard definition which probably accounts for allot of the difference in opinion about them amougst posters.

 

[no-one in particular]

I think journeys through fishing can be as varied as anything. Mine was shaped through locations, personal corners turned in life, family influences(I had a dad and a brother who fished, a brother and 5 sisters who hated it), finances and just plain personality. That bag is never going to be the same for any two anglers.
The most important thing to kids of a certain age is that they have access, safety and catch a few fish early on and that is provided by commercials for many. What happens thereafter could be anything. I meet a lot of anglers who fished when they were young and gave it up and then returned much later in life when they found they have a lot of time on their hands and nothing to do. Similar thing happened to me with redundancy at one point and I found commercials were the new thing and I enjoyed exploring them in all their variety very much. I will enjoy any type of fishing, fly, float, lake, river, sea, almost any species that swims and commercials were just another variety to explore. I never found anything wrong with them, some were better than others, some were brilliant, some were easier than others and some were difficult, but that can apply to any angling and commercials taught me a lot as well. If commercials hadn't of existed I would have missed out on a lot as far as I am concerned.

 

[sam vimes]

Based on someone in the chain making money out of them.

Whether that makes them a "genuine" commercial or not is a different question as there is no standard definition which probably accounts for allot of the differences in opinions about them amougst posters.

I fully accept that will be enough for a dictionary definition of the word commercial, but does it really still apply when you put the word fishery after it.? Personally, I don't think so. I doubt that more than a few using the phrase "commercial fishery" would include every last fishery just because a landowner was charging rent. As far as I'm concerned, any definition has to revolve around more than just the word commercial. After all, I don't recall anyone ever using the term before the mid 90s when the likes of Makins, Woodlands, The Oaks, Lindholme, Hayfield, Cudmore, Hallcroft, Mallory Park, Gold Valley, Partridge, Angler's Paradise etc really took off. However, I've said time and again that these threads are a minefield simply because we all use the phrase without any real definition.

Similar issues arise when talking about river fishing. Beyond a few species of fish, my locals, at least in the upper reaches I fish, share few similarities with to the rivers in the south and east of the country. It's easy to talk at odds about the "same" thing when they aren't actually the same at all.

 

[Philip]

these threads are a minefield simply because we all use the phrase without any real definition.

I absolutely agree with you, I have never liked the term “commercial” for a fishery. I actually see it as a derogatory term and & I suspect is often automatically associated with “easy fishing” which as others have alluded to can be both unfair and untrue.

The flip side & something that irritates me on occasion is that I see the total opposite happening when people use terms like ”natural water” or “estate lake”. We see these branded about allot which to me are equally vague but appear to have higher kudos than anything with mention of “commercial” in it.

 

[sam vimes]

I absolutely agree with you, I have never liked the term “commercial” for a fishery. I actually see it as a derogatory term and & I suspect is often automatically associated with “easy fishing” which as others have alluded to can be both unfair and untrue.

It may have developed into a derogatory term over time when uttered by those that dislike such venues, but I don't believe that it started that way. I rather think that it was first used by the anglers that frequented such places (especially the match anglers) and the tackle trade that picked up on it rapidly and used it as a label on products.

 

[peterjg]

I've been thinking (yes I know, it's very rare!) about different types of venue and what their appeal is? For instance: at the western end of the Basingstoke Canal there are no locks for approx 14 miles, parts of the K&A Canal and Thames and Kennet and some club pits - all virtually unfished - the point being that there is the element of the 'unknown'? Nobody really knows what these waters hold, I suppose it's the anticipation every time the float dips. On heavily fished waters there is less chance of a surprise catch?

 

[no-one in particular]

I imagine it means a fishery that is there to make money. Its just a business supplying a product to lure customers whereas clubs, estate lakes etc are not, they are doing us a favour and just looking to make a little money on the side. Personally, I don't care either way, I am just looking for a nice place to fish and some fish to catch. Preferably mixed fishing in nice surroundings and not too crowded with a bit of wildlife thrown in if possible. I found plenty of commies that provide just that with bonus extras, sometimes weekdays are better for the less crowded aspect but that is OK for me. If the fishing is considered contrived and unnatural, well it is to varying degrees but that doesn't bother me if I had a great day. Its not a priority to me that the surroundings must be natural and the fish are natural bred.
I do like a wild fish but it is not the be and end all, plenty of other things are more important. Personally I have had so much wild fishing, long trudges, stung by nettles and pierced by thorns, falling arse over tit on dodgy ground, trying to find where I can get a line in, often tangling with something, catching nowt usually etc I just find all that a huge pain now; I don't know why some of you find that so alluring and a must, it has lost a lot of its appeal to me. I am not trying to be a certain type of angler, just have a great day watching a float, enjoy my surroundings, take a few pics and enjoy myself, I will take that however it comes.
The best wild fishing I do now has banks all shorne by sheep but then sheep are not natural so I suppose it is not natural fishing!
I have spent £40 on a club this year, plenty of wild fishing which I find just a pain in the butt- I wish I had spent it on 4 trips to my favorite commie if I am honest and next year i will do just that.

 

[mikench]

I think a commercial fishery means one entirely man made, stocked with specific fish and quantities, accessible to anyone willing to pay the day ticket price, often with facilities like toilets, cafe, tackle shop and many many rules. Naturally they offer car parking, clearly defined pegs( a few don’t) and bait.

Of all that lot I feel the day ticket aspect is the most telling. A few of my club waters have toilet facilités , proper car parking, decent pegs and maintenance. One even has a cafe and several waters but that was a commercial taken over by the club. I have never been.

Most of the waters I fish have pegs, some form of car parking and are maintained from time to time; they even contain fish allegedly. They are however members only and the daily cost is a fraction of what you would pay at a pure commercial on a daily basis. Many commercials have match fishing on an almost daily basis on the “ best “ of their pools , which isn’t for me. I like the solitude many of my club waters offer with only a handful of anglers most of the time. Current post lockdown times with holidays abroad or anywhere in short supply, means an increase in the popularity of fishing for families. I consider this phenomenon is temporary and will fade as autumn and winter set in and if normality returns.

I no longer play golf but the contrast between club and commercial waters is like a private course and a municipal one.

 

[Philip]

Nobody really knows what these waters hold, I suppose it's the anticipation every time the float dips. On heavily fished waters there is less chance of a surprise catch?

“Commercials” don’t have to be heavily fished. In addition I think they can and do throw up lots of surprises. Ask any Perch specialist. Big Roach too, Eels and the like have all come from heavily stocked fisheries.

The only water that I think people would consider to be a commercial that I ever fished was a small lake down in the South East. It was a Carp fishery but I used to fish it for the Perch and it held some gooduns which hardly anyone fished for.

The point being people become focused on one species and ignore the others and as I guess we all know fish can thrive on neglect.

Mystery is there in the bucket load if people want to look for it.

 

[sam vimes]

“Commercials” don’t have to be heavily fished.

If they aren't heavily fished, can they really be considered to be a commercial?

 

[peterjg]

Philip, yes you are dead right, there are commercials with some big roach and perch which are rarely fished for. Not too far away are two commercials that do have very big roach BUT (for me anyway) they are always too crowded.

 

[Philip]

If they aren't heavily fished, can they really be considered to be a commercial?

I would say yes. They need to make enough money to be viable but after that it becomes a how longs a bit of string question.

The one i used to fish had more than one lake..most people went to one and the other was always empty.

Fishing midweek also helped too.

 

[sam vimes]

I would say yes. They need to make enough money to be viable but after that it becomes a how longs a bit of string question.

The one i used to fish had more than one lake..most people went to one and the other was always empty.

Fishing midweek also helped too.

As before, you are basing everything on a dictionary definition of the word "commercial". When I say "commercial fishery" or "commie", I'm not thinking of a day ticket water that isn't heavily fished. I'm not remotely convinced that folks that coined the phrase are thinking along the same lines as you either. If it's not capable of hosting at least a Fishomania (or equivalent match) qualifier, it's probably not a commie as I think of one. The type of place I have in mind will often have multiple pools and matches almost any day of the week. Some of them even have dedicated match pools that can't be fished unless you are in a match. They may have pools that aren't fished much unless others are full, but that's largely because they are poor, at least in comparison to other pools on site. If a "commie" isn't jam packed on a weekend or bank holiday, at least from Easter to the end of August, I doubt I'd even call it a commie. If I did, it would be because it used to be that way but something has gone wrong causing anglers to abandon it.

You are absolutely right about there being many fisheries, including big carp day ticket fisheries (I hesitate to use the term big carp commercials because, though undoubtedly commercial, they don't fit as being "commies" as I feel that the term was coined and originally intended), where certain species are present and all but totally ignored. Exactly the same can be said about many carp syndicates and big carp club waters.

 

[mikench]

A very simple rule of thumb may be that if the fish congregate next to an aerator it's a commercial. One could go so far as to say if there exists an aerator it's a commercial and overstocked in certain weather conditions. However you define it I know which waters I prefer.

 

[rayner]

My deduction of what I've read is that generally, anglers avoid mentioning fishing what is deemed commercial like it's a demeaning term.
There's a propensity of anglers who will admit to fishing club waters, strange when most club waters are a dug out hole with stocked fish even though sparsely stocked they are commercial in all but name. IE a hole dug and stocked with fish.
For me, the only waters that aren't artificial are rivers and canals and I can see why anglers who fish such water are against organised waters. Even rivers and canals have had their stock topped up, to say the least.
Even estate lakes and reservoirs I don't think could be classed as organised even though some include platforms. Stocking at some time has occurred. Regardless of when or how much.
I wish I was fit enough then I could spend my time at the coast, beach casting would be my choice the term commercial certainly wouldn't be used there. Fishing is

 

[no-one in particular]

I wish I was fit enough then I could spend my time at the coast, beach casting would be my choice the term commercial certainly wouldn't be used there. Fishing is

There is always that with sea fishing, all the fish are wild, all the beach is free.