Lack of improvisation

[no-one in particular]

One of the best looking commercials I fished is Holgan Farm near Tenby, its owned by Ian Heaps a former world champion angler.
Its lawned, has flower beds, plenty of rushes and lilies, it looks like a stately home lake,
Another good set up is Lloyd's Meadow at Frodsham.
A lot of owners of commercials live on the complex, so in some cases it seems as if you are fishing in their garden, the layout is that good.

Should we start a fishery rating thread. Out of ten for convenience, price, beauty, fish, snags, difficulty, overall out of ten. That's just off the top my head but what do you think. I think what will surprise anglers like tigger and peter is how few of them are just pig holes but that's not the reason I am suggesting it, It could be a useful exercise and could include rivers, day tickets and club waters.

 

[markcw]

Should we start a fishery rating thread. Out of ten for convenience, price, beauty, fish, snags, difficulty, overall out of ten. That's just off the top my head but what do you think. I think what will surprise anglers like tigger and peter is how few of them are just pig holes but that's not the reason I am suggesting it, It could be a useful exercise and could include rivers, day tickets and club waters.

Sounds good, I am not sure if there is a favourite day ticket waters forum on here, I will check .

 

[markcw]

Narrh, wouldn't touch fools gold while I can get hold of sensor .

I really dislike canals, been along a section of canal on the mtb this avvey and fishing it would be like torture for me. There's way to many people, people with dogs and kids, idiots running, mtb's rattling past....i'd finish up inflicting GBH within half an hour and have to get off before the law rocked up!

I would say it's the Leeds Liverpool canal ,?
Believe it or not Peel Holdings who have the rights over the Bridgewater canal require cyclists to have a permit, they only issue 12 a year, obviously this is never enforced.

 

[markcw]

Should we start a fishery rating thread. Out of ten for convenience, price, beauty, fish, snags, difficulty, overall out of ten. That's just off the top my head but what do you think. I think what will surprise anglers like tigger and peter is how few of them are just pig holes but that's not the reason I am suggesting it, It could be a useful exercise and could include rivers, day tickets and club waters.

It would have to be waters that members have fished, bot reading some blurb on the fishery website,

 

[no-one in particular]

It would have to be waters that members have fished, bot reading some blurb on the fishery website,

Oh ye, that would be the point, an honest assimilation not the blurb. Just a heads up to what sort of water you might find and if its any good or how good.
Anyone else think it is a good idea? I was thinking along the lines each facility with a heading and an out of 10 score, maybe some notes but not long flowery descriptions or numpty humpty spoiled my fishing etc. Just something that might be useful for anyone thinking about looking or looking for other places to try.

 

[markcw]

I

Oh ye, that would be the point, an honest assimilation not the blurb. Just a heads up to what sort of water you might find and if its any good or how good.
Anyone else think it is a good idea? I was thinking along the lines each facility with a heading and an out of 10 score, maybe some notes but not long flowery descriptions or numpty humpty spoiled my fishing etc. Just something that might be useful for anyone thinking about looking or looking for other places to try.

Would try and put price, and if concession prices, ie oap blue badge.
Ease of parking to water.
Facilities such as toilets ( and state they are in) cafe or burger bar. Or no food.
State of the place, waters etc,
Type of fish and if possible weights of fish.

 

[rayner]

Markcw: in answer to your question. Like most anglers then I started as a general course fisherman with my dad in the late '50s. Fishing mainly the Thames. I started serious carp fishing in 1975 and fished for them until 2013 when I moved to Hampshire. Carp fished in the summer with mostly roach fishing in the winter. I was very lucky in that the two clubs that I was in (at the time) had probably the best carp waters nationally - a good carp was 35lb plus. The waters were quiet, big, very beautiful and secure, even then there was a 10 year waiting list. I even had my own rowing boat and mooring on one 50 acre pit. I know many anglers that have caught lots more carp than I, but I have managed 3 x 40s, 42 x30s and around 300 20s.
Now I try (note the word 'try') to catch big roach. I have some success but they are much harder than big carp. I belong to five clubs and much prefer quiet venues than carp filled holes in the ground. I have managed a few 2lb roach but would love a 3 - no harm in dreaming!
No I don't match fish, I no doubt would be thrashed - but that is not the reason. I like a challenge but will not fish for monetary gain, or choose to sit in a circle around a muddy puddle facing someone and catching over stocked half staved mouth damaged carp.

Everyone to their own I suppose?

A carp angler who'd have thought, that's why you're so up yourself and the way you fish.

 

[john step]

Well done Steve. You have certainly stirred up and opened a lot of debating starting this thread.

 

[peterjg]

Again I do apologise for going off original subject (improvising) but "commercials" are exactly that. They are commercial money making enterprises which must try to attract lots of customers to make money. It would appear that lots of anglers prefer easy straightforward fishing and if that is their preference then why not? However; although we all want to catch isn't fishing a bit more than just catching?

 

[john step]

Again I do apologise for going off original subject (improvising) but "commercials" are exactly that. They are commercial money making enterprises which must try to attract lots of customers to make money. It would appear that lots of anglers prefer easy straightforward fishing and if that is their preference then why not? However; although we all want to catch isn't fishing a bit more than just catching?

Yes I agree but I think its good to have the option. I dont do a commercial very often but after a series of gruellers with not too much to show ( such as my failing attempts at river tench) its nice to have a day on a more stocked water. I have access to clubs that have hard waters and also easy waters. Sometimes I just want to put brain in neutral and sit snoozing in the shade behind a couple of buzzers.

 

[sam vimes]

although we all want to catch isn't fishing a bit more than just catching?

Fishing can be whatever an individual wants it to be. If that means going to an out and out commie, so be it. I like my fishing venues to offer a degree of solitude that most commies, that actually deserve the name, simply can't provide. The fact that others fish them doesn't bother me one bit. Being bothered what others choose to do seems as daft as me slating sushi at every available opportunity just because I don't like it.

 

[no-one in particular]

Again I do apologise for going off original subject (improvising) but "commercials" are exactly that. They are commercial money making enterprises which must try to attract lots of customers to make money. It would appear that lots of anglers prefer easy straightforward fishing and if that is their preference then why not? However; although we all want to catch isn't fishing a bit more than just catching?

I would love to know where you get this from, have you fished any commercials. Straight forward fishing, have you any idea how varied commercials are, no two are the same or even how many varied lakes they might have on one site or very occasionally even a bit of river and how each lake will have it is own personality so to speak and require sometimes very different approaches, try working that out in a day and catch a load of fish... And why would the word commercials make them mere pit stops. Every thing that is fine in life is commercial, there to make money, it doesn't mean there product is crap. I am being honest here, I had to learn and improvise a lot more when I first started to fish commercials than I had done previously of 20 years of river fishing. I had many days struggling on commercials when the fish were just not feeding and just working out which baits and methods worked best. I do not recognize this stereotyped view and I am sure that's all it is. You have missed out on a lot in my view. I might want to catch a 2lb+ roach on a river, but I would still consider it a great achievement on a commie lake. You would have it it is all easy and straight forward, go and catch a 2lb+ roach on your first cast on your first commie and I might agree with you.
Solitude can be a problem on some but I found many were virtually empty in the week and the better designed ones had swims designed to give solitude, at least I never had to put up with wobbly fat ladies on boards, cyclists, radios and dogs and suchlike. And some of them are in the best countryside settings you could hope to find in this country. One, the bird watching was so good they charged bird watchers £3 just to walk round but of course I got that in my day ticket. I had the best 5 years of my angling life when I was concentrating on them and would do it all over again.
Mud holes full of pigs with very bad anglers surrounded by ugly is a very long way off from the world I discovered.

 

[Philip]

Interesting thread.

It started to veer off in a totally unrelated & predictable direction as the usual minority got their barbs out about Carp and commercials. I was about to log off but then wonder of wonder a growing number of others appear to be growing weary & started pushing back about it.

Noticeable too was the dwindling number of “likes” the posts in question got & how those hardcore few quickly jumped ship when it became apparent that not everyone was going to play along

A bit of balance returning to FM ? …lets hope so.

 

[no-one in particular]

Interesting thread.

It started to veer off in a totally unrelated & predictable direction as the usual minority got their barbs out about Carp and commercials. I was about to log off but then wonder of wonder a growing number of others appear to be growing weary & started pushing back about it.

Noticeable too was the dwindling number of “likes” the posts in question got & how those hardcore few quickly jumped ship when it became apparent that not everyone was going to play along

A bit of balance returning to FM ? …lets hope so.

I thought it should be a different thread but here we are and improvisation is covered, commercials are an improvisation and fishing them successfully would mean your average river angler would have to improvise a lot; could they cope!

 

[markcw]

Again I do apologise for going off original subject (improvising) but "commercials" are exactly that. They are commercial money making enterprises which must try to attract lots of customers to make money. It would appear that lots of anglers prefer easy straightforward fishing and if that is their preference then why not? However; although we all want to catch isn't fishing a bit more than just catching?

Peter a lot of commercials will have a specimen lake, a silvers only lake, that also holds large perch and tench.
I am in a club called Newlands in Standlake Oxford, they have 4 waters on the Linear Fisheries complex, which I presume you have heard of. These are gravel pit type waters similar to Linear , whose waters incidentally hols some large tench and silvers.
Two of the waters that Newlands have, the specimen lake and the lagoon are large enough if they were that way inclined to hold power boat meetings on.
The two smaller waters have a good mixed stock of silvers,tench,perch,pile and carp all of varying sizes, The one I mainly fish has an island running the length of it, it is a 40 yard cast to it from one side of the lake and 50yards cast from the other.
The other smaller water is of similar size.
These are not muddy holes in the ground, there are benches dotted around, a picnic table, the grass is cut regularly.And they have a good bailiff team, who advise on set ups if required, all leger and feeder rigs should be free running, and a minimum 18" from float to hook. Like I said the bailiffs are good,approachable and offer advice if asked on how the waters are fishing. I know they are good because I was a bailiff for a club up north for a number of years.
Now.. apart from selling membership cards, they also do day tickets.....So in a way it can be classed as a commercial... but not the way you and others perceive them to be...muddy holes filled with starving carp and 200lb achievable on each visit, that's going off your 4 keepnet post, Keepnets are not allowed on commercials or many club waters except in authorized matches.
Some Rivers and Canals are day ticket....
Are they commercials.? ...Yes because they charge you to fish them. But again no muddy hole or starving carp.

 

[markcw]

Going back to improvisation, this was more of a rule bending really,
A water I fished banned method feeders and cage feeders,and groundbait for some reason.The only feeders aloud were maggot feeders, which on their day were very good.
To get around the method feeder ban ,I and a few others softened the fisheries own 2mm pellets enough so they would mould to a straight lead, we fished a 4" hooklength tucked into the pellets ,in effect creating a mini method feeder.
After a while, the water owners got wise and implemented a ban on doing that, all pellet feed had to be done by hand or pole pot.
Another way of getting around a no groundbait rule was to use milled pellets wetter down to form a groundbait, or put a layer of groundbait in a tub,wet cubes of luncheon meat and put in tub so groundbait sticks to it, only works with certain types of groundbait.
So improvising on banned methods but staying within the rules.

 

[markcw]

I might be wrong but I don't think so. It would appear that a lot of anglers are content just to follow the latest trend: be it method, tackle, bait, etc. For instance; just look at big carp anglers or commercial anglers everyone is using virtually identical tackle and baits.

How many use methods or baits that they invented themselves, not many. No problem, most anglers are clones they just Google the latest article and mindlessly copy.

 

[no-one in particular]

My most innovative period of fishing was on commercials, I started with just what I knew, basic float/leger set ups and basic baits and expected to catch loads of fish which I didn't. I started experimenting with different baits and came up with a few I invented that worked plus one of the best baits ever that can be bought from a supermarket, I have never seen it yet mentioned on any forum or mag.
My mate and I started fishing two different lakes close to each other, I started with sweetcorn and had a few nibbles but no fish and after an hour I tried my new bait, straight away I was into a 10/12lb carp. My mate came running over and helped me and I gave him a bit of it. No sooner had I got settled back in and I looked round and his rod was going some, a similar sized carp. We both continued to have sporadic fish + some bream if I remember rightly. deadly bait, I swore him to secrecy and I have never told anyone what it was and I not going to now. My point is, commercials will test your imagination and innovation.
Another one was this small lake full of small carp, good tench and just about everything else, could we catch on it! And then I started abandoning the float and free lined with just a bit of thick grass stuck on the line with a rubber, then I started catching, best little pond ever and the maybe the most fun I ever had. I must have been living in a different world.

 

[markcw]

My most innovative period of fishing was on commercials, I started with just what I knew, basic float/leger set ups and basic baits and expected to catch loads of fish which I didn't. I started experimenting with different baits and came up with a few I invented that worked plus one of the best baits ever that can be bought from a supermarket, I have never seen it yet mentioned on any forum or mag.
My mate and I started fishing two different lakes close to each other, I started with sweetcorn and had a few nibbles but no fish and after an hour I tried my new bait, straight away I was into a 10/12lb carp. My mate came running over and helped me and I gave him a bit of it. No sooner had I got settled back in and I looked round and his rod was going some, a similar sized carp. We both continued to have sporadic fish + some bream if I remember rightly. deadly bait, I swore him to secrecy and I have never told anyone what it was and I not going to now. My point is, commercials will test your imagination and innovation.
Another one was this small lake full of small carp, good tench and just about everything else, could we catch on it! And then I started abandoning the float and free lined with just a bit of thick grass stuck on the line with a rubber, then I started catching, best little pond ever and the maybe the most fun I ever had. I must have been living in a different world.

A good bait on commercials that was kept under the radar, was macaroni cheese straight from the tin,
I have mentioned pearl barley before,
Red kidney beans,
Chick peas soaked in a glug.
These are some of the supermarket baits I have tried, plus the usual seafood ones ,prawns,cockles and mussels.

 

[markcw]

A lot of people who have not fished a commercial, go with the preconceived idea they will bag up with100lb of fish.
The majority of commercials are stocked with F1's , you can be fishing 3" overdepth from them and they will not be interested, you have to continually keep varying depth to keep them interested.
Some commercials have plateaus in the water, some may be like snooker tables in size, others like a bedside table, the fish feed on these, so careful plumbing up is required, you could be fishing 6' deep at the side of a plateau that is 4' high and not catch,.That is why it is important when plumbing up on any water to move the plummet side to side to check for snagsxand variations in depth.