Large Mouth Bass in the UK?

[mikench]

We have made too many errors in introducing "alien " or non indigenous species of animals and fauna, many inadvertently over the last 160 years. Let's not make any more.

 

[Krang]

We have made too many errors in introducing "alien " or non indigenous species of animals and fauna, many inadvertently over the last 160 years. Let's not make any more.

There is an argument for introducing an alien species in order to control another alien species though. Such as the introduction of Japanese insects that control knotweed in Japan in order to control knotweed here.

Imported insects control Japanese knotweed

An imported insect has been imported to try and control Japanese knotweed.

www.wiseknotweed.com

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The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that the introduction of muskies to UK rivers is the way forward regarding the zander issue.

 

[mikench]

There is a flaw in that proposition. Look up the Cane toad problem in Australia. It was introduced to eat aphids on the cane crop but became a much worse problem. There is usually a very good reason why certain species are not found in certain climates and locations.

 

[Krang]

There is a flaw in that proposition. Look up the Cane toad problem in Australia. It was introduced to eat aphids on the cane crop but became a much worse problem. There is usually a very good reason why certain species are not found in certain climates and locations.

If muskies became a problem we could just get the alligator gar.

 

[mikench]

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly...............

 

[Krang]

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly...............

This is totally different. Spiders can't catch flies in old lady's stomachs. But in rivers, muskies can catch zander, alligator gars can catch muskies, and so on.

 

[mikench]

Being childishly obtuse doesn't suit you.

 

[Krang]

Being childishly obtuse doesn't suit you.

I bet you're just a match angler worried that alligator gars would eat all the silver fish. Alligator gars would be awesome man. Match angling sucks. If alligator gars would alleviate the muskie problem then it's an environmental good as well as good for cool angling.

 

[mikench]

I'm not a match angler, we don't even have Muskie and this is the UK in case you had forgotten. No more posts on this thread as I'm bored.

 

[Molehill]

The grass is always greener etc.
Wanting to introduce non native fish species for angling puzzles me, we have a wonderful selection of native fish for the angler but always want something different. Sturgeon and catfish come to mind, I just don't get it - other than being big - why? The answer there is probably that a photo of angler with 80lb catfish does more for the ego than a 1lb dace. Commercialism also plays a big role.
Not content with perch and pike we introduced Zander, did we need them?
Most game anglers would say "how about rainbow trout, they are a success". Really, a species that can't even breed on it's own in UK (I know the hand full of exceptions) and is dependent on a whole rearing industry to stock puddles throughout the country. And they grow big, fast, more ego trip and commercialism.
Leave these species where they belong, in 60 years angling I haven't even mastered catching our native species and certainly don't need any more to think about.

 

[markcw]

I bet you're just a match angler worried that alligator gars would eat all the silver fish. Alligator gars would be awesome man. Match angling sucks. If alligator gars would alleviate the muskie problem then it's an environmental good as well as good for cool angling.

 

[Krang]

From what I've read the only reason rainbows don't breed more in the UK is that the particular strains aren't suited to doing so. Had fish from some different populations been introduced instead it would be a different story.

Does anyone know anything about the reliability of the sterilisation process used in stocked brown trout. Is it 100%? If 100% sterilisation of stocked fish was certain it would negate the long term risks of stocking alien species.

 

[steve2]

Most commercials could not exist without an alien species, it's called F1carp.

 

[markcw]

F1 are a hybrid , bred by crossing carp with crucians or brown goldfish,
First done around 30 years ago.
At first they thought the weight would go to around 6lbs, but I think the record is around 13lb.
F2 are bred by crossing two F1 carp .
I cant see how they are alien,
Are roach/bream hybrids alien.
A lot of clubs that want a crucian carp water go to the trouble of removing any carp in that water,

 

[Krang]

Aren't all carp alien, but considered 'naturalised' because they were introduced so long ago?

 

[Molehill]

From what I've read the only reason rainbows don't breed more in the UK is that the particular strains aren't suited to doing so. Had fish from some different populations been introduced instead it would be a different story.

Does anyone know anything about the reliability of the sterilisation process used in stocked brown trout. Is it 100%? If 100% sterilisation of stocked fish was certain it would negate the long term risks of stocking alien species.

My understanding is to do with water temperature at the right time of year, haven't heard about more suitable populations so feel free to enlighten me.
On our fish farm rainbows could spawn successfully In the feeder stream, the water came out of springs from chalk south downs at a constant temperature all year and escaped rainbows would find a bit of gravel and spawn ok - but this was only a couple of hundred yards of waterway! We produced the first commercial triploids in uk, the scientist (long forgotten his name) came and showed us how, from there it escalated. Think we did brownies as well later on.

I have fished for natural wild rainbows in Alaska and believe me, our version are a pale imitation of the real thing. Regards carp being introduced species, I'm fine if we get rid of them too ?.

 

[flightliner]

I've seen Bass in a park lake in Milan-- 'orrible things!
Anglers there don't like them, the Bass surround their keepnet in groups trying to get to the fish, any that are played to hand or landing net are attacked mercilously by several Bass at a time.
I would think that any released in a commy would soon be thrown in the bushes by matchmen, possibly even me if I caught one elsewhere if I had a few attacking my silverfish, it's bad enough when pike do it but they're natural, why have more predators, don't we have enough already!!

 

[markcw]

I

I've seen Bass in a park lake in Milan-- 'orrible things!
Anglers there don't like them, the Bass surround their keepnet in groups trying to get to the fish, any that are played to hand or landing net are attacked mercilously by several Bass at a time.
I would think that any released in a commy would soon be thrown in the bushes by matchmen, possibly even me if I caught one elsewhere if I had a few attacking my silverfish, it's bad enough when pike do it but they're natural, why have more predators, don't we have enough already!!

If I catch any zander they are going up the bank, against any EA rules to return them to the water.

 

[rayner]

F1 are a hybrid , bred by crossing carp with crucians or brown goldfish,
First done around 30 years ago.
At first they thought the weight would go to around 6lbs, but I think the record is around 13lb.
F2 are bred by crossing two F1 carp .
I cant see how they are alien,
Are roach/bream hybrids alien.
A lot of clubs that want a crucian carp water go to the trouble of removing any carp in that water,

It's true Mark F1s are another hybrid. Folk who don't like them can be excused from thinking they are alien by the way they feed. On the surface, they snatch at feed on the deck they are stealthy enough to be a strain of ninja.
I fish commercials but hate F1s with a vengeance. I dislike the way they take over fisheries by the amount owners stock. OK, they are a viable target for matchmen, some are real experts in catching them. Still not a fish I want to catch.

 

[markcw]

It's true Mark F1s are another hybrid. Folk who don't like them can be excused from thinking they are alien by the way they feed. On the surface, they snatch at feed on the deck they are stealthy enough to be a strain of ninja.
I fish commercials but hate F1s with a vengeance. I dislike the way they take over fisheries by the amount owners stock. OK, they are a viable target for matchmen, some are real experts in catching them. Still not a fish I want to catch.

if they are on the feed they can be suicidal, like you say, catch as soon as bait goes in, other times they can have an expander off the hook with hardly a dink on the float,very frustrating especially if float is dotted right down.
They can be harder to catch than people think, they could be feeding at say 3' and you are fishing either above or below that you wont catch, that goes for most fish but F1's mainly.But there are anglers who can catch them whatever the circumstances.