Lift method on the float

[mikench]

I love this method not that I’ve ever had total success with it and intend trying it more . Has anyone tried this rig?

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It looks interesting in its use of a float attached by rubbers and the shot fixed on the tail of the swivel knot and I might give it a go next time out.

 

[rich66]

I was looking at something very similar today, I’ve never really gave the lift method a go.
The thing that always gets me is that the fish will have to lift all that shot up, may sound daft but how much can or will a fish lift without panic or ejecting the bait ?
May give it a try tomorrow.

 

[Roger Johnson 2]

I use exactly this rig for carp stalking/margin fishing, although often with the float lying flat rather than cocked for lift bites.
Advantages are that the peacock quill can be trimmed to match the weight used and the thick top is resistant to being pulled under with drift, attached by float rubbers there is no damage to the line and it can slip or the float fall off if a fish takes you through snags, and there is no line damage from locking shot. Similarly placing the shot on the tag end of the knot they are not damaging the line and can slip off if snagged. The buoyancy of the float support much of the weight of the shot during the bite ( if fished lift style) although it does appear counter intuitive to use one or two SSG. When using/ feeding with small baits like maggots casters or corn it can be amazingly sensitive, or with the float flat the lack of tight vertical line reduces spooking.
Try it it’s a great margin rig for larger fish.


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[mikench]

It sounds contradictory to the usual fear of fish feeling resistance when mouthing/ swallowing the bait. However it does work but maybe not with some species like perch. Mind you I’m not after them.

 

[tigger]

I usually fish straight through as above, I prefer no weak spots in my set up.

 

[Keith M]

I use the traditional lift method for Tench with a short 3 to 5 inch length of peacock quill and fishing around 5 or 6 inches over depth with a single shot which is only just enough to submerge the float placed around 3 or 4 inches (and no more unless fishing over silt) above the hook.
(NB: float length and size of shot used to balance it depends on whether there is any surface tow to contend with)

I cast out and put my rod into two rod rests and gently wind in until the float cocks and settles down so that only the tip of the quill is visible above the surface.

The idea behind it is that when a Tench picks up the bait in its lips the float immediately starts to rise and lay flat which is the moment when you strike. The Tench doesn’t feel the full weight of the single shot as it rises because the weight of the single shot is being shared by the buoyancy of the float as it rises but by then the hook is already sunk into the bottom lip anyway.
(NB: This is why a single shot which is only just heavy enough to sink the float and hold it still; and no more; is used)

In practice these classic bites from the Tench vary from the classic rising of the float to the float just shooting away.



I use this classic method on my local estate lake in the spring fishing fairly close in near beds of lilies with a Centrepin although any reel can be used really, but the Centrepin allows me to adjust the tension a bit easier plus I really enjoy fighting Tench on a centrepin.

Keith

 

[Roger Johnson 2]

I usually fish straight through as above, I prefer no weak spots in my set up.

I beg to differ, old chap!
Assuming the knots on the hook and swivel are the same the rig will have the same strength regardless of one knot or three.... it’s the knot strength that matters and not the number of knots. However pinching shot on the line in a direct ( no hook link) to hook scenario will create a weaker spot from flattening the line or possibly damage from a sharp edge on the shot, whereas pinching shot onto a tag end of a knot doesn’t weaken the rig and it would be easier for the shot to fall off if caught in a snag.


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[tigger]

I beg to differ, old chap!
Assuming the knots on the hook and swivel are the same the rig will have the same strength regardless of one knot or three.... it’s the knot strength that matters and not the number of knots. However pinching shot on the line in a direct ( no hook link) to hook scenario will create a weaker spot from flattening the line or possibly damage from a sharp edge on the shot, whereas pinching shot onto a tag end of a knot doesn’t weaken the rig and it would be easier for the shot to fall off if caught in a snag.


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We all have our own prefered methods, for me the less knots the better, no knots at all would be best of all. I often use float or leger stops to trap my link leger and my shot are on my link anyhow ?.
Regarding shot on my line, I play some fiesty fish in tight spots and my shot don't cause my line to break, but, you must remember I use the best line and shot money can buy ?.

SLM ???

 

[Roger Johnson 2]

We all have our own prefered methods, for me the less knots the better, no knots at all would be best of all. I often use float or leger stops to trap my link leger and my shot are on my link anyhow .
Regarding shot on my line, I play some fiesty fish in tight spots and my shot don't cause my line to break, but, you must remember I use the best line and shot money can buy .

SLM

Thanks for the prompt reply and I maintain as you it’s the strength of the line and quality of the knot that counts but if the knot strength is Xlb then the strength of the whole rig is Xlb whether it’s one or 10 knots, however... tying a rig with 10 knots gives more opportunity to get one wrong and introduce a weaker point, but I suspect we’re both old and experienced enough to be very consistent in our knots. Similarly we’re probably consistent with pressure of shot, and I too would use shot on the line in most float rigs, yet you agree it’s better to avoid them by using a link léger trapped with float stops in the case of the lift method, but is there also not a risk there that if snagged the link could slide down to the hook and cause it to be dislodged?
In the case of shot on the tag end they’re going to slip off quite easily as long as you’ve pinched them on lightly.
( enjoying the argument but won’t reply further tonight)


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[tigger]

Thanks for the prompt reply and I maintain as you it’s the strength of the line and quality of the knot that counts but if the knot strength is Xlb then the strength of the whole rig is Xlb whether it’s one or 10 knots, however... tying a rig with 10 knots gives more opportunity to get one wrong and introduce a weaker point, but I suspect we’re both old and experienced enough to be very consistent in our knots. Similarly we’re probably consistent with pressure of shot, and I too would use shot on the line in most float rigs, yet you agree it’s better to avoid them by using a link léger trapped with float stops in the case of the lift method, but is there also not a risk there that if snagged the link could slide down to the hook and cause it to be dislodged?
In the case of shot on the tag end they’re going to slip off quite easily as long as you’ve pinched them on lightly.
( enjoying the argument but won’t reply further tonight)


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I'm not arguing with anything you've posted Roger .
I've merely stated the way I prefer to fish. The simpler the set up the better for me ?.

 

[rayner]

Some interesting posts regarding shot, I like the one with shot on the tag end. I fish waggler a lot and never clamp shot on my mainline apart from Ballabeni shot which is lead. We all fish different and nothings wrong, folk need to not get too precious of how they do their thing. Who really cares, I mean take Sensor line, please take Sensor line. Yuck!!

 

[markcw]

I have used the lift method when pole fishing both in the margins and open water,
For the margins I have used quills I have found on the bank, a quick trim and off with the feathers, a coat of" Sally Hansen Hard As Nails" nail polish, Float rubber on thick part of quill and have thin part more or dotted right down, very sensitive set up.
For open water it's a normal pole rig set up, overdepth and on tightish line to pole tip.

 

[Windy]

I had a brief fetish for the lift method a few years ago and spent ages trying variations on the rig and shotting etc. I found that it worked but only in very limited conditions, still water, little or no wind, no more than 4 feet deep at short range.

Essentially unicorn conditions... frankly not worth the effort for me, given equally productive and simpler float rigs and set ups.

 

[108831]

So you fish super-pro-gold now then Ian,didn't know you'd changed....

 

[sam vimes]

I've been fishing my own take on the lift method extensively this season for tench. However, as is often the case in my fishing, shot have been replaced by olivettes. As I'm fishing a big, deep, weedy, gravel pit, there's no point in faffing about with tiny floats and little shot. In benign conditions and the odd shallower swim, I may get away with olivettes as small as 3g or so. However, I've rarely bothered with less than 5g. I've not been shy of going up to 10g in deeper swims or more windy conditions. I'll use lock and slide olivettes in smaller sizes and in-lines for the bigger. I doubt that my take on it would meet with approval from the purists, but it works just fine and is less limiting than a more traditional lighter set up. I dare say that the heavier the olivette used gets, the closer it gets to being float legering, but it's still effective and still produces classic lift bites.

 

[Roger Johnson 2]

I'm not arguing with anything you've posted Roger .
I've merely stated the way I prefer to fish. The simpler the set up the better for me .

Perhaps I should have said “enjoying the discussion”
Try this for a trip down memory lane!

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[markcw]

I've been fishing my own take on the lift method extensively this season for tench. However, as is often the case in my fishing, shot have been replaced by olivettes. As I'm fishing a big, deep, weedy, gravel pit, there's no point in faffing about with tiny floats and little shot. In benign conditions and the odd shallower swim, I may get away with olivettes as small as 3g or so. However, I've rarely bothered with less than 5g. I've not been shy of going up to 10g in deeper swims or more windy conditions. I'll use lock and slide olivettes in smaller sizes and in-lines for the bigger. I doubt that my take on it would meet with approval from the purists, but it works just fine and is less limiting than a more traditional lighter set up. I dare say that the heavier the olivette used gets, the closer it gets to being float legering, but it's still effective and still produces classic lift bites.

Sam, do you find you get better indications using the inline olivettes, ? Only asking because it is like a free running leger rig. And sometimes gives less resistance than a fixed rig

 

[sam vimes]

Sam, do you find you get better indications using the inline olivettes, ? Only asking because it is like a free running leger rig. And sometimes gives less resistance than a fixed rig

I'm not fining it makes a great deal of difference other than providing greater stability in deeper pegs and windier conditions. The only reason for the change from one type to the other is that Drennan don't do bigger than 5g in the lock and slide.

 

[markcw]

I'm not fining it makes a great deal of difference other than providing greater stability in deeper pegs and windier conditions. The only reason for the change from one type to the other is that Drennan don't do bigger than 5g in the lock and slide.

Reading your post gave me an idea on fishing the deeper margins using pole and quill float,
Will try fixed olivettes first in case get taken into snag ,so it will ping off,
I am going to get some heavy olivettes anyway for light legering on some commies and club waters next time I go up to Warrington.

 

[tigger]

So you fish super-pro-gold now then Ian,didn't know you'd changed....

Eh? Wot on abert thee?