Main Line and Hook Length Break Strains

[scottm1976]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on break strains, the commercial fishery where my 9 year old goes to fish at the moment has up to and around 27-30lb carp in the lake he wants to fish.

Is there a general rule of thumb for main line break strain compared to size of fish in the lake i.e. based on 27lb fish would 25lb break strain mono (braid not allowed) be suitable and then what would be the hook length break strain compared to the main line break strain.

If you could advise the general rules for choosing break strains I would be very grateful.

Thanks,
Scott.

 

[sam vimes]

Scott,
are you talking about carp fishing, buzzers, boilies etc, or fishing for carp with normal rod and line/pole tactics? The answers you may get could be quite different depending on your response.

Amongst the specialist carp world, it's not at all uncommon to use hooklinks of greater breaking strain than the mainline. Amongst more general anglers, it's relatively unusual to do so. However, the match fraternity sometimes seem to buck that trend with their current obsession with line diameters and high tech Vs standard monos.

However, get as far away as you can from thinking that you need anything like 30lb line to land a 30lb fish. There's barely a fish swimming in UK freshwater that can't be landed on 10lb line. The use of greater breaking strains is usually down to factors other than the size of the fish.

When full on carping (buzzers, bobbins and all), I rarely use mainlines over 12lb. I've never used greater than 15lb. However, hooklink materials are usually a bare minimum of 10lb, mostly 15lb+.

When fishing more generally, with rod and line or pole, I doubt that I've ever used greater than 8lb mono mainlines. Hooklinks will invariably be less than the mainline I'm using.

 

[scottm1976]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, its basic carp fishing with rod and hair rig, I can see that you probably don't need 25lb line to catch a 25lb fish as long as you reel in correctly.

My son has 12lb Daiwa Sensor on a reel, assuming this would be fine what would be the recommended hook length break strain and are there any general rules of thumb when it comes to choosing line break strain and what weight fish it would be suitable for.

Just a basic understanding of how to choose the right break strain line for each occasion.

Thanks.

 

[sam vimes]

12lb Sensor wouldn't be my first choice, but the breaking strain will be fine. 12lb is a good allround mainline breaking strain. I'd only go higher if the fishery insisted (some do) or if it were a fairly snaggy water.

As far as hooklinks go, where braided or coated braid hooklinks are banned, I'd tend to use flurocarbon, probably in 15 or 20lb, maybe in 12lb in certain circumstances. Again, there's no absolute correlation between breaking strains and the size of the fish you could encounter. The reason for the higher breaking strain than mainline is mainly due to the fact that I know that mainlines are often under rated. Fluro tends to be weaker than stated, especially when knotted.

 

[iannate]

Sam's given you very good advice, one thing I would add about the high breaking strain is partly because of the size weights often used in 'carp' fishing, these are often bigger than 4oz and can be heavier when using pva bags etc.. This puts the line under a lot of pressure when casting; the weight of a fish in water is really quite light, but the power that they can exert can be very high.

I would disagree with Sam's dislike of sensor line, I like and use it, not 12lb though. If you read through some of threads, no one will agree on line. Neither of us is right or wrong, it's just what we like and get on with.

 

[scottm1976]

Thanks guys,

So 12lb main is ok, if we stick with mono hook length would the break strain be about same as the main. I am a bit wary using same or higher break strain hook length just in case it gets caught, what are the main reasons/benefits for a higher break strain hook length.

Again, thanks for the advice, still learning (and lots to learn).

 

[sam vimes]

Thanks guys,

So 12lb main is ok, if we stick with mono hook length would the break strain be about same as the main. I am a bit wary using same or higher break strain hook length just in case it gets caught, what are the main reasons/benefits for a higher break strain hook length.

Again, thanks for the advice, still learning (and lots to learn).

The benefits of a higher breaking strain hooklink are dependent on the material concerned. Some type hooklinks offer relatively poor resistance to abrasion. Others have relatively poor knot strengths. In either instance, there can be a case for using such materials in a breaking strain that exceeds that stated for the mainline. However, it's worth bearing in mind that mono reel lines are generally underrated and hooklinks are often overrated.

Though I rarely use mono for hooklinks, I'd use the same breaking strain, or less, than the mainline, especially if using one single type/brand of line.

Many carpers don't bat an eyelid at the prospect of using 20/25/30lb hooklinks with 10/12/15lb mainlines. I've found that those with more of a general coarse/match background (like me) are a little more hesitant. However, when you look around at the hooklink materials available, you'll not find too many less than 15lb. That should tell a story in itself.

The Tackle Box line tests may be enlightening for you. It gives some statistical backing to what I'm trying to get across. However, they aren't testing hooklink materials, just mono, fluro and braid mainlines.
http://www.tacklebox.co.uk/pdfs/line_tests_issue3c.pdf

 

[tigger]

Personally I think your 12lb sensor is spot on. Along with that mainline i'd go with a ten or eight pound leader. You could use sensor as your hooklength if you preferd it...now't wrong with it, it's great line, just a bit coily in the 12lb but it's very abrasive and reliable.
I wouldn't use the same breaking strain mainline and hooklength, the common beleif that line snaps on the knots is cobblers so your mailine could snap anywhere along it when under pressure. I'd go either lighter or heavier on the hooklength (lighter for me) certainly not the same....jmo.

 

[john step]

The advice given is very good. What you havn't mentioned is the rod and reel.
Forgive me if I am wrong assuming but if you needed to ask those questions you are not an experienced angler yourself( carp wise anyway).

He does have a proper carp rod and reel I presume???
As Ian stated the heavier lines in carping are as much about the weights being cast as the fish playing.
Try casting a heavy weight on 12lb mono with an under gunned rod is a disaster waiting to happen.

Just asking.

John

 

[wanderer]

I am going to be different, my choice in Nylon would be Shimano Technium, or Pro Gold in 15 pound breaking strain with a 10 pound hooklink, you are absolutely right to be concerned about tether, i would never use a hooklink stronger than the mainline. The reason its done with some braids is that it is mistakenly beleived it prevents mouth damage, that is why the anti braid crowd justify its use as a hooklink, rubbish, see what condition the mouths are like on this commercial you are about to fish. As a general rule of thumb the line strength should not exceed 5 times the Test Curve Rating of the rod, otherwise you risk a break and remember to set the clutch correctly.

 

[scottm1976]

Evening all,

Thanks for all the good advice, I will take on board and do more research, I want to make sure my boy gets it right now rather than getting into bad habits or not knowing why he is doing things a certain way.

He does have a carp rod and reel, its a new rod so from memory its a Shakespeare Aerial Carp Rod, think 12ft and 2.5lb test curve.

I am new to fishing, myself and my son started coarse fishing about 6 months ago but we do research a lot before trying it and watch a lot of You Tube videos. On holiday in Sept he started carp fishing and caught a 12lb common carp which we handled quite well, he is extremely keen to learn about fishing and wants to try everything but I think carp fishing will become his passion.

Thanks again and I will keep reading the threads on this website, its been a great help.

 

[john step]

Evening all,

Thanks for all the good advice, I will take on board and do more research, I want to make sure my boy gets it right now rather than getting into bad habits or not knowing why he is doing things a certain way.

He does have a carp rod and reel, its a new rod so from memory its a Shakespeare Aerial Carp Rod, think 12ft and 2.5lb test curve.

I am new to fishing, myself and my son started coarse fishing about 6 months ago but we do research a lot before trying it and watch a lot of You Tube videos. On holiday in Sept he started carp fishing and caught a 12lb common carp which we handled quite well, he is extremely keen to learn about fishing and wants to try everything but I think carp fishing will become his passion.

Thanks again and I will keep reading the threads on this website, its been a great help.

Edited next day...just another thought......
I think its great at 9 yrs he is interested in fishing and by implication the outdoors. An angling acquaintance recently bemoaned the fact that no matter how he tried to get his son interested in fishing all the boy wants to do is play with computers/games on the screen.
There are some old die hards like me that think it better to get into general fishing before specialising but if youngsters start by carping I am coming round to the way of thinking "So what. At least they are coming into the sport". Later on they may or may not discover the joys of moving water and other species.

Tight lines. Unfortunately things get harder from now on with dropping water temperatures.
A lot of commercials can produce fish through the winter apart from the most severe of conditions.
If he wants to keep on fishing when the carp are slow, it may be better to target roach and perch until a mild spell.
Its still fishing and watercraft learning.
It depends which end of the country you are in. The climate does vary which effects the catchability.
Please keep us all informed of his progress.

 

[wanderer]

As above, my friend , persevere with the lad, its a great hobby and a lifelong carreer of pleasure awaits him, my advice, build up his expectations, buy him christmas gifts and wait till spring.

 

[iannate]

There will be plenty of warmish days to go out fishing during the Winter time, no need to wait until Spring; fish still feed during those colder times, and it's also a better time to get to know a water and visit other potential venues.

 

[newmarket]

I am going to be different, my choice in Nylon would be Shimano Technium, or Pro Gold in 15 pound breaking strain with a 10 pound hooklink, you are absolutely right to be concerned about tether, i would never use a hooklink stronger than the mainline. The reason its done with some braids is that it is mistakenly beleived it prevents mouth damage, that is why the anti braid crowd justify its use as a hooklink, rubbish, see what condition the mouths are like on this commercial you are about to fish. As a general rule of thumb the line strength should not exceed 5 times the Test Curve Rating of the rod, otherwise you risk a break and remember to set the clutch correctly.

Hello Stevey . You just know I'm going to disagree with you on this

I'm a believer that some of the braids in their thinner diameters DO cause mouth damage but for the original posters benefit I'd just like to point out that it's just one of those things that Carpers agree to disagree on and it's something that we know we'll never fall out over.

Because it's already been mentioned I'll add that I don't agree with leaders of any kind either because of the tethering possibilities .

It's another knot in the line so another potential weak spot , does little for camouflage purposes in fact lots stand out like a sore thumb .

Unless your planning on chucking 4oz plus leads 120 yards ( shock leader) I'd go
Main line straight through .
The right choice of mainline and technique will eradicate the need for a leader to assist sinking as well .

Hope your well Steve

 

[wanderer]

Yeah, I am not to bad Tim, work is killing me at the moment as we fill our stores for Christmas and the rods are in the garage till spring now, but cant complain mate. How are you, see you didnt move in the end, i hope everythings OK buddy. My apologies to the op, old pal online.

 

[iannate]

Hello Stevey . You just know I'm going to disagree with you on this

I'm a believer that some of the braids in their thinner diameters DO cause mouth damage but for the original posters benefit I'd just like to point out that it's just one of those things that Carpers agree to disagree on and it's something that we know we'll never fall out over.

Because it's already been mentioned I'll add that I don't agree with leaders of any kind either because of the tethering possibilities .

It's another knot in the line so another potential weak spot , does little for camouflage purposes in fact lots stand out like a sore thumb .

Unless your planning on chucking 4oz plus leads 120 yards ( shock leader) I'd go
Main line straight through .
The right choice of mainline and technique will eradicate the need for a leader to assist sinking as well .

Hope your well Steve

Hi NM, glad you picked up on this

You just know I'm going to disagree with you on this