richiekelly
Well-known member
Athletics looks to be a superb investment at over 4 million a medal while pensioners bloody freeze, what a country, you couldn't make it up.
Oppose Open Access for canoes
- Thread starter geoffmaynard
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bennygesserit
Well-known member
There are always some people on the outside looking in who do not have the whip hand. Some will try to talk their way in others will try to muscle or force their way in where they have no right to be. The talkers stand some kind of a chance at the end of the day. The we will do and take what we want brigade will cost them their chance of ever sorting it out. That life is life if you want to move into someone else's territory do not upset the natives.
robtherake
Well-known member
I thought it interesting that "Stalkperch" - an angler and canoeist - provided a balanced viewpoint and took to task the antagonistic militant types.
There are a substantial number of anglers who see canoeing/kayakking as a way to extend their repertoire of methods, and because they understand the consequences of their actions (over spawning beds, for instance) they do so in a sympathetic way.
Your non-angling canoeist is a very different animal. I don't want to tar the whole with the same brush, but if an individual is ignorant of their effects on freshwater ecology and unwilling to take the time to research and understand the angler's point of view, then they only see us as a rather stubborn and selfish obstacle to be overcome.
Many (together with the vast proportion of the non-angling public) understand nothing at all about the catch and release nature of coarse angling and believe that we are emptying the waterways of all that we catch. How many times have you heard the astonished words, "You put them back?!!!, What's the point, then?...." They simply do not understand our motivation.
The militants - as in all walks of life - are self-serving types who will never recognise the validity of an opposing viewpoint because to them, theirs is the only one that matters.
Unfortunately, they have the loudest voices, and by their very nature are skilled manipulators and rabble-rousers with neither conscience nor any kind of moral structure to hold them back.
A link from the Song of the Paddle thread illustrates the gulf of misunderstanding involved between the two parties. The canoeists may or may not be clever individuals in their own walks of life, but they simply do not understand the needs or rights of anglers and, to a degree, are willing to follow the lead of those with the loudest voices to achieve their ends.
38 Degrees - canoe access campaign
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tryanythingtwice
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Of course our waterways are a wonderful addition to the governments 'sporting portfolio' no grass to cut, no pitches to mark, no buildings to heat and no loss of land to sporting arena to prevent much needed house building. Quite the perfect sport canoeing...
robtherake
Well-known member
It strikes me that the government, properly lobbied, could be our staunchest allies.
A poster on "The Paddle" intimates that their best approach is to garner sympathy in political circles; i.e. those who have the strongest clout.
Anglers probably have a far greater representation in this respect, from ministers who angle, and there's no-one better than a politician at protecting their own vested interests - most spend their lifetime doing so, one way or another.
bennygesserit
Well-known member
Without making this a Trust issue canoeists do appear to envy the clout of the Trust a good deal.
The point about militancy is very valid i would imagine most anglers on the right river wouldn't mind the odd canoeist and I imagine most paddlers want the same.
I do wonder how much the rational anglers view has been hijacked by the Countryside Alliance / landed Gentry , inherited ownership of vast parts of Britains natural resources and the refusal to share offends my naturally socialist sensibilities , though I fully understand that this is a view not applicable to all our rivers ( I know some FM. Members own stretches without being the landed gentry for instance ).
By the same token there are a lot of very sensible paddlers who also fish but again their cause appears to have been hijacked by militants this is human nature I suppose but its a shame this sometimes translates to confontation on the bank , I'd rather not spoil a days fishing with that nonsense.
Having studied the PRN legalargument though over many fora I must admit my view has changed and I do not think the paddlers case , based on remnants of the Maga Carta , holds up at all.
tryanythingtwice
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Robtherake, I hope that you're right but if I was a representative of the canoeists, lobbying politicians, the fitness element of canoeing and therefore the health benefits would be an aspect I'd be pushing. Reinforced with the likelihood that open access would cost zilch. I also think that in todays political environment politicians looking after their own interests too obviously quickly get hammered by the media, and rightly so.
robtherake
Well-known member
Your points are well made, and expose the naivety of some of my own thoughts - especially with respect to the current political climate. It hasn't stopped them sticking their fingers in the till, though...
---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:30 ----------
Unfortunately, the default position for the human animal is one of selfishness. Altruism rarely gets a look-in in this world of today - perhaps it's a negative survival trait in the current circumstances?
Those paddlers making the most noise, win or lose, are firmly in the former camp. They are the ones who'll continue to flout the law whether they win or not.
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richiekelly
Well-known member
Not to mention the income that would be lost by any of them that are riparian owners if open access were to come about, clubs would be dropping river stretches like they were hot bricks.
bendsomecane
Active member
Gents , I wrote about this issue a few years ago on the river Dearne in South yorks.
To many it was a local 'spat' between anglers and canoeists. However even back then I saw the massive problems this would cause. The canoeing fraternity and Canoe England are always sabre rattling because they have lost the legal arument. They have no right of access.
Check out my 2010 post on EA recreation policy.
Ive signed your petition. Good luck
Bendsomecane
To many it was a local 'spat' between anglers and canoeists. However even back then I saw the massive problems this would cause. The canoeing fraternity and Canoe England are always sabre rattling because they have lost the legal arument. They have no right of access.
Check out my 2010 post on EA recreation policy.
Ive signed your petition. Good luck
Bendsomecane
ru123
Active member
Signed & Sent
Phil Hatton 2
Well-known member
Signed and posted on the Lymm AC website.
hunters moon
Well-known member
completed.....I have fished through fishless days that I remember happily without regret.
....Roderick haig-brown.