Fishingdownthewindy
Well-known member
What stretch was that on Andy?, it has been ill thought out the introduction hasn't it, along with the crayfish within the system it does not hold out much hope for the river in the future.
River Windrush -Any hope?
- Thread starter andygrey
- Start date
Found downstream of Burford. Last season I saw a VERY large carp on the banks of the Windrush near where it goes past one of Linear Fisheries waters, also saw a pike that was probably nudging double figures.
I went to an EA presentation of the river Evenlode last year (a rather sad story in itself). During the inevitable discussion about otter releases the guy from the EA said that out of the 10 or so otters released in Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire area about 7 or 8 had been found dead as road kill. He reckoned that the otters that have got a to hold on our rivers round these parts have arrived through natural population spread.
I don't know how many people have see one in the flesh but they are not small animals and no doubt have corresponding appetite.
As for the crayfish, nobody really knows the culprit/s, some blame the American airmen for bringing them over to cultivate food, other illegal 'farms' There was one I believe near the airfield in Kidlington. Whatever the truth, I'm pretty sure that they did not get here by accident and that they were a deliberate introduction into this country.
Andy
I went to an EA presentation of the river Evenlode last year (a rather sad story in itself). During the inevitable discussion about otter releases the guy from the EA said that out of the 10 or so otters released in Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire area about 7 or 8 had been found dead as road kill. He reckoned that the otters that have got a to hold on our rivers round these parts have arrived through natural population spread.
I don't know how many people have see one in the flesh but they are not small animals and no doubt have corresponding appetite.
As for the crayfish, nobody really knows the culprit/s, some blame the American airmen for bringing them over to cultivate food, other illegal 'farms' There was one I believe near the airfield in Kidlington. Whatever the truth, I'm pretty sure that they did not get here by accident and that they were a deliberate introduction into this country.
Andy
i fell on this forum by mistake, and wanted to post.
locally we have always had mink along the windrush from stanton to ducklington, this was because of the animal rights idiots letting the lot go from northmoor. And not thinking of the impact it would have and has had for yrs. the otters really wont have the impact people think.The fish move faster than the crayfish so which is easyer for them to catch ?
I have grown up on the windrush, and local areas and helped landscape alot of the lakes growing up.
The signal crayfish were introduced into newbridge some twenty yrs ago. and really didnt take long for them to travel up the thames and areas and concidering they can travel over land for miles really does show there is no place they cant find
and funny enough over the coming months will be looking at the damage to river from these guys, and hopefully get some stuff publish to show .
locally we have always had mink along the windrush from stanton to ducklington, this was because of the animal rights idiots letting the lot go from northmoor. And not thinking of the impact it would have and has had for yrs. the otters really wont have the impact people think.The fish move faster than the crayfish so which is easyer for them to catch ?
I have grown up on the windrush, and local areas and helped landscape alot of the lakes growing up.
The signal crayfish were introduced into newbridge some twenty yrs ago. and really didnt take long for them to travel up the thames and areas and concidering they can travel over land for miles really does show there is no place they cant find
and funny enough over the coming months will be looking at the damage to river from these guys, and hopefully get some stuff publish to show .
Fishingdownthewindy
Well-known member
Welcome to the forum!
The artificial release of mammals on our banks be it for conservation or animal rights activists has created an imbalance of the natural order, it seems to me that the “well meaning” will create an implosion.
As for the crayfish having to restructure the banks at xx millions, wouldn’t it be cheaper to clear them out once a year?....or am I been a bit daft?
The artificial release of mammals on our banks be it for conservation or animal rights activists has created an imbalance of the natural order, it seems to me that the “well meaning” will create an implosion.
As for the crayfish having to restructure the banks at xx millions, wouldn’t it be cheaper to clear them out once a year?....or am I been a bit daft?
A
alan whittington
Guest
Certainly not to me your not,but you know how it works for the powers at be,you must not offend the do gooders,who believe everything will be alright,tell that to those in New Zealand and Japan.
quickcedo
Well-known member
I believe work is being done on a gene modification which will. if it works make all male signal cray infertile. The trials I believe are quite well advanced.
If you try to fish them out it doesn't work. It's impossible to catch them all and when you thin them they breed faster.
If you try to fish them out it doesn't work. It's impossible to catch them all and when you thin them they breed faster.
A
alan whittington
Guest
Fishingdownthewindy
Well-known member
Christ sake Mark,eat em quicker
I think people are if they know or not....I have seen tons coming out caught by three Chinese ladies on a regular basis...anyone for a take away?
A
alan whittington
Guest
the decline of the Windrush
Hi all,
Only just joined, so my first post. I first fished the Windrush over 40 years ago as a kid. Back then both the main stream and the mill stream on the Witney stretch were throughout the summer months crystal clear and very weedy with lots of habitat. There were large shoals of Chub, with Barbel and even the odd Pike laid up with them. There were also many Dace, Roach, Perch and Gudgeon (when did you last see one of them). The river was also alive with Minnow, indead it was difficult to keep a bait in the water before it was decimated by the Minnows. Even so we fished it often and caught countless Chub on floating crust, or free lined cheese paste, during the winter I would trot a dumpy float down the near bank with either cheese or a bunch of maggots as bait, not much finess was required then. All fishing needed a degree of stealth, as the fish were easily spooked, but catches of 10 to 20 Chub up to 3Ib was not unusual.....That was then, now it's so different. I walk my dogs along the river most mornings before work, the decline over the years has been dramatic, especially the last couple of years! The river no longer runs clear, last summer it was permanently murky, with very poor weed growth and I now see very few fish, some stretches appear to be devoid of anything living. I even contacted the environment agency, they said 'they would look into it' but I did'nt hold out too much hope! I have seen otter on the river, but quite frankly I don't think there is much left even for them. Sorry to ramble on but it makes me sad to see the river in it's present state when I know what it used to be like...
Hi all,
Only just joined, so my first post. I first fished the Windrush over 40 years ago as a kid. Back then both the main stream and the mill stream on the Witney stretch were throughout the summer months crystal clear and very weedy with lots of habitat. There were large shoals of Chub, with Barbel and even the odd Pike laid up with them. There were also many Dace, Roach, Perch and Gudgeon (when did you last see one of them). The river was also alive with Minnow, indead it was difficult to keep a bait in the water before it was decimated by the Minnows. Even so we fished it often and caught countless Chub on floating crust, or free lined cheese paste, during the winter I would trot a dumpy float down the near bank with either cheese or a bunch of maggots as bait, not much finess was required then. All fishing needed a degree of stealth, as the fish were easily spooked, but catches of 10 to 20 Chub up to 3Ib was not unusual.....That was then, now it's so different. I walk my dogs along the river most mornings before work, the decline over the years has been dramatic, especially the last couple of years! The river no longer runs clear, last summer it was permanently murky, with very poor weed growth and I now see very few fish, some stretches appear to be devoid of anything living. I even contacted the environment agency, they said 'they would look into it' but I did'nt hold out too much hope! I have seen otter on the river, but quite frankly I don't think there is much left even for them. Sorry to ramble on but it makes me sad to see the river in it's present state when I know what it used to be like...
A
alan whittington
Guest
Welcome Patrick,its a sad endictment that the Windrush is not alone,'Olde Father' isnt faring to well either,in fact southern rivers in general,seem to be failing fast.
quickcedo
Well-known member
I saw 4 barbel on the Windy last week. They were near the usuall spawning ground. 10 years ago when I moved here that would have been 44. Although I enjoyed seeing them i couldn't help feeling sad about it at the same time.
N
Neil Smart
Guest
I agree, to blame the Otters is not fair, I think we should look at water absraction as to be the main problem for the Windrush.
cg74
Well-known member
Jeez, good job I'm sat down, me and Neil Smart in agreement on something.
.
N
Neil Smart
Guest
Jeez, good job I'm sat down, me and Neil Smart in agreement on something
Neil Smart and I ...tut
cg74
Well-known member
Well noticed Neil, very crass of me putting myself before another.mg:
Though as I have often said: I is a bumpkin an grammah ain,t me strong piont...
mg:Though as I have often said: I is a bumpkin an grammah ain,t me strong piont...
Fishingdownthewindy
Well-known member
This mentions the windrush and many rivers in the area....does not make easy reading
Secretary’s report to 2010 AGM. Upper Thames Fisheries Consultative.
Dear friends,
I debated long and hard whether to write a report at all this year. This indecision on my part reflected my pessimism about the future of angling in our area – and with this a strong feeling that my over long tenure as UTFC secretary ought to come to an end. However, in the hope that someone will take over my job I will tell it how I see it.
Sadly, I think we have lost every battle that I really care about.
River Windrush
Personally, I can’t bear to look at the lower Windrush these days. The EA acknowledges that the river loses up to 1/3 of its flow between Witney and the Thames, but says the matter is closed. No further research, let alone action is contemplated. Fly hatches are poor, turbidity is perpetual and the river is infested with signal crayfish. The specimen roach and dace for which the river was famous seem to have disappeared – almost certainly due to cormorant predation – and the river has lost its barbel too. As for grayling in the lower river – they are a distant memory. Higher up the river, remnant populations hang on. Strangely, wild brown trout recruitment is reasonably good, though the outsize trout the river used to produce do not show, probably because the millions of minnows they used to eat aren’t there!
River Evenlode
The Evenlode was once my winter “banker”. I could catch lovely roach on almost any day of the year. This too appears to be a thing of the past. Again, turbidity is perpetual. Some friends tell me that they still catch specimen roach, chub and perch, but the EA’s survey results have been very depressing. The gudgeon have gone – and, I think, the minnows too! I attended a presentation by Tom Sherwood of the EA at Ascott u Wychwood on the state of the Evenlode. I think this was a valuable occasion and I would like to see the EA give similar presentations on other West Area rivers, perhaps to this forum.
River Cherwell
On my favourite piece of the Cherwell I never saw another angler last winter. That was great as I am notably antisocial, especially when fishing. Unfortunately, other anglers had not deserted the stretch for no reason. The barbel, which were once plentiful, have gone. The chub were for many years never particularly large – a four pounder was a very good fish. Later we saw the chub decline in numbers but pack on weight and even I caught a six pounder. Sadly, the numbers of chub now seem to be thinning out further and as the old big fish die I wonder what will replace them.
River Kennet
I have wonderful memories of Kennet days, fly fishing days at the Wilderness and coarse fishing days at Rainsford and Upper Benyons and many more. Alas on the Kennet as elsewhere the scene is depressing. Even above the canal confluence the river is more turbid than it was and the fly hatches are poor. Below the canal confluence the river is perpetually turbid, infested with signals and the vast shoals of chub, roach and barbel that we once encountered simply don’t exist. I know there is an expensive plan to re-channel part of the middle Kennet at Copse Lock, separating river and canal. I am not a fan! A great deal of money would be spent to bring benefit to 2 estates – the Craven and Sutton estates while the benefit to the rest of the river would be zero. The Italians have a wonderful phrase: “Cathedrals in the desert” – expensive projects that bring little benefit. This re-channelling of the Kennet merits that description. The UTFC (David Reinger and Richard Knowles) continues to attend meetings of the Kennet Fap group. The Kennet has a plethora of groups which meet with the EA. I think we all wonder how real is the progress made.
I can go on and on, but it is too depressing. The barbel have disappeared from the Thames; the Glyme is always the colour of mud; the Coln – once rated alongside the Hampshire chalk streams – has lost its fly – and, where I fish, its ranunculus and grayling too! If there are any bright spots for fishing in this area I can’t see them. In the past year we have had a number of tussles with the EA about flood defence work about which we have not been consulted. David Cameron has said that if he wins the election landowners would have a greater say in flood defence work. That is not an appealing prospect. Whoever wins there must be real doubt that the EA will exist in current form in five years time. Sadly, I am pessimistic that any restructuring will be for the better.
Yes, I am a sad and angry old man. When I became UTFC secretary the fishing in all of our rivers in this area was better than it is now – and that is because our rivers were better fisheries and more diverse ecosystems. Chemical water quality as narrowly defined and measured by the EA (BOD, SS and Ammonia) has not got worse. Indeed it is probably better. However, the impact of phosphates and trace pesticides are much less clear. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove, that invertebrates – the key to the food chain – are very sensitive to both.
What has undoubtedly impacted on our fisheries in the past 20 years is predation. Cormorants, signal crayfish and otters have all had an impact. We know that cormorants ravage silver fish stocks – and can eat quite large fish. We know that signal crayfish hammer slow moving invertebrates. We suspect they also aggravate turbidity problems. Finally, otters eat large fish. They can’t eat eels because there aren’t any and, for whatever reason, poor recruitment means small fish don’t grow to replace the big ones that get eaten.
I would like to end on a positive note, but frankly I can’t. Join the Angling Trust and enjoy what remains of your fishing while you can. I hope our rivers will bounce back, but I am not betting on it.
Richard Knowles
28th April 2010.
Secretary’s report to 2010 AGM. Upper Thames Fisheries Consultative.
Dear friends,
I debated long and hard whether to write a report at all this year. This indecision on my part reflected my pessimism about the future of angling in our area – and with this a strong feeling that my over long tenure as UTFC secretary ought to come to an end. However, in the hope that someone will take over my job I will tell it how I see it.
Sadly, I think we have lost every battle that I really care about.
River Windrush
Personally, I can’t bear to look at the lower Windrush these days. The EA acknowledges that the river loses up to 1/3 of its flow between Witney and the Thames, but says the matter is closed. No further research, let alone action is contemplated. Fly hatches are poor, turbidity is perpetual and the river is infested with signal crayfish. The specimen roach and dace for which the river was famous seem to have disappeared – almost certainly due to cormorant predation – and the river has lost its barbel too. As for grayling in the lower river – they are a distant memory. Higher up the river, remnant populations hang on. Strangely, wild brown trout recruitment is reasonably good, though the outsize trout the river used to produce do not show, probably because the millions of minnows they used to eat aren’t there!
River Evenlode
The Evenlode was once my winter “banker”. I could catch lovely roach on almost any day of the year. This too appears to be a thing of the past. Again, turbidity is perpetual. Some friends tell me that they still catch specimen roach, chub and perch, but the EA’s survey results have been very depressing. The gudgeon have gone – and, I think, the minnows too! I attended a presentation by Tom Sherwood of the EA at Ascott u Wychwood on the state of the Evenlode. I think this was a valuable occasion and I would like to see the EA give similar presentations on other West Area rivers, perhaps to this forum.
River Cherwell
On my favourite piece of the Cherwell I never saw another angler last winter. That was great as I am notably antisocial, especially when fishing. Unfortunately, other anglers had not deserted the stretch for no reason. The barbel, which were once plentiful, have gone. The chub were for many years never particularly large – a four pounder was a very good fish. Later we saw the chub decline in numbers but pack on weight and even I caught a six pounder. Sadly, the numbers of chub now seem to be thinning out further and as the old big fish die I wonder what will replace them.
River Kennet
I have wonderful memories of Kennet days, fly fishing days at the Wilderness and coarse fishing days at Rainsford and Upper Benyons and many more. Alas on the Kennet as elsewhere the scene is depressing. Even above the canal confluence the river is more turbid than it was and the fly hatches are poor. Below the canal confluence the river is perpetually turbid, infested with signals and the vast shoals of chub, roach and barbel that we once encountered simply don’t exist. I know there is an expensive plan to re-channel part of the middle Kennet at Copse Lock, separating river and canal. I am not a fan! A great deal of money would be spent to bring benefit to 2 estates – the Craven and Sutton estates while the benefit to the rest of the river would be zero. The Italians have a wonderful phrase: “Cathedrals in the desert” – expensive projects that bring little benefit. This re-channelling of the Kennet merits that description. The UTFC (David Reinger and Richard Knowles) continues to attend meetings of the Kennet Fap group. The Kennet has a plethora of groups which meet with the EA. I think we all wonder how real is the progress made.
I can go on and on, but it is too depressing. The barbel have disappeared from the Thames; the Glyme is always the colour of mud; the Coln – once rated alongside the Hampshire chalk streams – has lost its fly – and, where I fish, its ranunculus and grayling too! If there are any bright spots for fishing in this area I can’t see them. In the past year we have had a number of tussles with the EA about flood defence work about which we have not been consulted. David Cameron has said that if he wins the election landowners would have a greater say in flood defence work. That is not an appealing prospect. Whoever wins there must be real doubt that the EA will exist in current form in five years time. Sadly, I am pessimistic that any restructuring will be for the better.
Yes, I am a sad and angry old man. When I became UTFC secretary the fishing in all of our rivers in this area was better than it is now – and that is because our rivers were better fisheries and more diverse ecosystems. Chemical water quality as narrowly defined and measured by the EA (BOD, SS and Ammonia) has not got worse. Indeed it is probably better. However, the impact of phosphates and trace pesticides are much less clear. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove, that invertebrates – the key to the food chain – are very sensitive to both.
What has undoubtedly impacted on our fisheries in the past 20 years is predation. Cormorants, signal crayfish and otters have all had an impact. We know that cormorants ravage silver fish stocks – and can eat quite large fish. We know that signal crayfish hammer slow moving invertebrates. We suspect they also aggravate turbidity problems. Finally, otters eat large fish. They can’t eat eels because there aren’t any and, for whatever reason, poor recruitment means small fish don’t grow to replace the big ones that get eaten.
I would like to end on a positive note, but frankly I can’t. Join the Angling Trust and enjoy what remains of your fishing while you can. I hope our rivers will bounce back, but I am not betting on it.
Richard Knowles
28th April 2010.
A
alan whittington
Guest
Mate,i'd like to thank you for the above post,it puts a lid to what ive been thinking for a few years now,my beloved Thames is now off my venue list(which breaks my heart),as catching a decent fish is a task most days,3 or 4,a red letter day.mg:
mg:quickcedo
Well-known member
Alan, remember this refers to the upper Thames (a place I know you have enjoyed fishing for years) not the middle to lower river. The middle to lower Thames is still fishing quite well, though of course I wouldn't know about the silver fish. But Chub and Barbel are still there to be had esp Walton and below.
A
alan whittington
Guest
I know Mark,but the Kennet is a long way down and we've both fished Benyons(upper and lower)and i think the problems are spreading along the river and its tributaries,my personal view is most of the problems are sewage related,with predation the icing on the cake and many rivers without large numbers of treatment plants,or above most of them,seem to be faring better,'olde father' has so many plants that problems are radiating down slowly,the only saving grace is the sheer size of the river,diluting the problem the nearer you get to the sea,this is only my ramblings but the Ouse seems the same.