roach bream hybrids

[flightliner]

Does anyone know what sort of size that roach bream hybrids can attain and what, if any sort of "record" exists is the biggest that anyone has heard of?

 

[peter crabtree]

I remember Matt Hayes on a tv show
catching one around 6lb, in Ireland if I remember. My best to date is 3lb from the colne.

 

[Mark Wintle]

John Bailey is trying to claim a IGFA record with a 7-12 fish but I vaguely remember ones being recorded at up to 9lbs+. Graham had a very big roachxbream hybrid years ago.

 

[andreagrispi]

I had a roach/bream hybrid of 6lb 2oz a couple of years ago - got one of 4lb 4oz the same day. It was a red letter day as I also had 18 bream with 7 10lb+ fish and a load of tench to 8lb.

I've had a couple of rudd/bream hybrids in Sussex of 4lb 1oz and 3lb 15oz - I thought the biggest was a roach, until I got it in the net.

They are super looking fish and tend to fight very well.

---------- Post added at 08:53 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------

Matt Hayes fish was caught from a private Oxford water.

Graham had one of 7lb 4oz

 

[preston96]

Whilst i agree some of them can be lovely looking fish, personally i do not think we should have a record list of them......?

 

[peter crabtree]

That first sighting , your heart jumps as thoughts of a huge roach fill your anxious mind . Don't come off......! Then the realisation in the landing net.
I have to agree with Paul, no point in records for these ......

 

[slime monster]

I agree also that a record is pointless but I love catching these fish as they give a very good account of themselves and tend to fight above their weight

 

[quickcedo]

Does anyone know if can breed? if not, maybe that's why they fight so well.

 

[preston96]

That first sighting , your heart jumps as thoughts of a huge roach fill your anxious mind . Don't come off......! Then the realisation in the landing net.
I have to agree with Paul, no point in records for these ......

Well put, i have had a few of those moments myself and the heart do's inded jump.......indeed a few have made me look twice even when unhooking!

 

[cg74]

Does anyone know if can breed? if not, maybe that's why they fight so well.

Mark, ordinarily hybrids between two species that are not very closely matched i.e roach X bream, common carp X crucian carp or even donkey X horse are A sexual, therefore sterile, this is to promote genetic purity and survival of a species.

Regards fighting qualities, this maybe a part of what is called hybrid vigour, though normally the main traits associated pros of hybrid vigour are displayed in a improved immune system, like often seen with mungrel dogs.


Meant to say the biggest roach X bream I've seen was a 8lber, from the Shannon.

 

[preston96]

Mark, ordinarily hybrids between two species that are not very closely matched i.e roach X bream, common carp X crucian carp or even donkey X horse are A sexual, therefore sterile, this is to promote genetic purity and survival of a species.

Regards fighting qualities, this maybe a part of what is called hybrid vigour, though normally the main traits associated pros of hybrid vigour are displayed in a improved immune system, like often seen with mungrel dogs.


Meant to say the biggest roach X bream I've seen was a 8lber, from the Shannon.

You know what cg..........i dont believe ALL hybrids, mules, cross breeds, call them what you want are sterile.

Your mongrel dog proves that?

 

[cg74]

You know what cg..........i dont believe ALL hybrids, mules, cross breeds, call them what you want are sterile.

Your mongrel dog proves that?

Paul, you should note the word "ordinarily" was used, by this I meant most fish hybrids are sterile, where as most dog ones are not.

This is because the genetic differrences between two fish are "ordinarily" of such a level, nature's way to offer genetic security is make these hybrids sterile.

Dog, cow, pig, sheep etc hybrids normally are closely enough of a genetic match that the A sexual phenomenon does NOT occur.

 

[Graham Marsden]

I can't find an old black and white picture of my biggest roach x bream hybrid but it weighed 8lb 4oz.

The first picture below is a 6lb 6oz roach x bream hybrid I caught from one Cheshire mere and the second picture is a 7lb 12oz roach x bream hybrid I caught from a different Cheshire mere. The 8lb 4oz hybrid came from a different Cheshire mere than the other two.

6lb 6oz
​

7lb 12oz

It is possible to have more than one generation of hybrid, and obviously from the pictures the fish I caught have a greater influence from the bream parent than they do the roach parent.

Although it is by no means conclusive, the fish were verified as roach x bream hybrids by Alwyn Wheeler from pictures and scale samples.
​

 

[flightliner]

Thanks for the info and pics everybody.The reason I offered this thread up for discussion was that on opening day I took a roach bream hybrid of 6-14. The fight wasnt what I was expecting as I was fishing for bream and I did actually say to the angler nearby that it was fighting like a roach- even before I saw it coming to the landing net. With that in mind at the first nano second of seeing it I was taken aback somewhat, but the penny soon dropped as I have taken them before but not in those proportions. The fish looked pretty much like your first foto Graham. So near yet so far away !!!! B----r!!!

 

[preston96]

I can't find an old black and white picture of my biggest roach x bream hybrid but it weighed 8lb 4oz.

The first picture below is a 6lb 6oz roach x bream hybrid I caught from one Cheshire mere and the second picture is a 7lb 12oz roach x bream hybrid I caught from a different Cheshire mere. The 8lb 4oz hybrid came from a different Cheshire mere than the other two.

6lb 6oz​

7lb 12oz​

It is possible to have more than one generation of hybrid, and obviously from the pictures the fish I caught have a greater influence from the bream parent than they do the roach parent.​

Although it is by no means conclusive, the fish were verified as roach x bream hybrids by Alwyn Wheeler from pictures and scale samples.​

I reckon that top one would qualify as a roach in some quarters today :wh

 

[Graham Marsden]

The second picture would as well in some quarters Paul.:wh

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

What is wrong with having a record for these fish..??? after all. they put up a good fight and swim just like any other fish.

 

[preston96]

What is wrong with having a record for these fish..??? after all. they put up a good fight and swim just like any other fish.

But how far would we take it? a roach roach/ bream, a bream bream/roach, a rudd rudd/roach etc etc....the list is long.

Personally i think it would make a mockery of the existing list.

Mind you.....it looks like Graham would hold one of them!

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

But how far would we take it? a roach roach/ bream, a bream bream/roach, a rudd rudd/roach etc etc....the list is long.

Personally i think it would make a mockery of the existing list.

The list is already a mockery Paul.

Roach/Bream, Roach/rudd, Rudd/Bream, then if a chub/dace comes along, deal with it then. We have fish on the list not native to the uk, so why not a fish that is native.

 

[preston96]

The list is already a mockery Paul.

Roach/Bream, Roach/rudd, Rudd/Bream, then if a chub/dace comes along, deal with it then. We have fish on the list not native to the uk, so why not a fish that is native.

Match!! debate later

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Right, Ray, i wouldn't swap the one record you caught for all the hybrids that we can make up.

But just lately with comments from the likes of Des in AT and others who put themselves on pedastals i fear for "true" records anyway!