Rod endorsements

mikench

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
14,037
Reaction score
440
Location
leafy cheshire
I was reading an interesting article in the AT about Rod Hutchinson and his life. He was a carp angler first and foremost but manufactured bait, rods and flavourings. He looked a real character .There is still some gear about bearing his name and lots of rods named after sponsored anglers like Will Raison, Martin Bowler , John Wilson, Tom Pickering and many others.

Were any of these rods special and better than the non endorsed equivalent?
 
Last edited:

s63

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
5,354
Reaction score
242
Location
Kent
Do t know the answer to that Mike not having owned any but I assume “endorsed” brings a premium price tag with it.
 

mikench

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
14,037
Reaction score
440
Location
leafy cheshire
I'm just curious John as some new rods still available and bearing the name Rod Hutchinson as an example, look to be made to a low price and sold cheap. Other older Daiwa rods bearing the name Tommy Pickering are sold as special and at a matching price.

There hasn't been an Acolyte Alan Scotthorne yet:)
 

steve2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
110
Location
on the move
Like everything else in this celebrity crazed world put a name on it and and it will sell more than the same thing without a name.
Quality of the item doesn’t matter it’s the name on it that counts.
I still think the best rods I use are my TFG rods but others wont use them because they carry the wrong name.
 
Last edited:

flightliner

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
6,649
Reaction score
68
Location
south yorkshire
Were any of these rods special and better than the non endorsed equivalent? (Quote-mikence)
In a word mike, no, but I've had several over the years that have done yeoman service as have other rods I've had that were non endorsed-- J Wilson , Tom Pickering, to name a couple of the endorsed ones.
Other rods I've enjoyed werent endorsed but enjoyed a somewhat equal popularity and first choice amongst many anglers , particularly amongst the match angling , pike and general Specimen Hunter fraternity, some of which that had to be bought as blanks and made up by the user.
 
Last edited:

nottskev

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
2,860
Reaction score
188
As usual, the answer is that it all depends. Sometimes the rod has clearly benefited from the input of an expert. I never saw a Daiwa rod, for instance, with Tom Pickering's name on that wasn't an excellent rod. In some cases, there are no "equivalents" since there is no matching rod without the name on. Customers with a bit of background knowledge about the manufacturer and the named angler's relationship with them are likely to sniff out when someone is trying to cash in on a name. That said, I was suckered into buying something called a Matt Hayes Limited Edition centrepin. Even at the impossibly low price - it was discounted at a bargain basement store - it was hopeless and I literally threw it away.
 

s63

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
5,354
Reaction score
242
Location
Kent
I'm just curious John as some new rods still available and bearing the name Rod Hutchinson as an example, look to be made to a low price and sold cheap. Other older Daiwa rods bearing the name Tommy Pickering are sold as special and at a matching price.

There hasn't been an Acolyte Alan Scotthorne yet:)
They also use to sell Rod Hutchinson branded pellets etc in GoOutdoors, doesn’t seem his name has great value in the modern fishing world.
 

steve2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
110
Location
on the move
They also use to sell Rod Hutchinson branded pellets etc in GoOutdoors, doesn’t seem his name has great value in the modern fishing world.
If you put Richard Walkers name on anything now people would say who's he.
Yesterday’s hero, the world moves on to the next celebrity endorsement and hero worship.
 

Mark Wintle

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2002
Messages
3,996
Reaction score
51
Location
Azide the Stour
When rods are absolute top of range with a top angler who really has had a lot of input then yes, the name makes a difference. Cheap rods on the other hand are just that, cheap rods.

As mentioned Tom Pickering had a lot of input and put his name to some top class rods. John Allerton and John Dean, ditto.

Ken Giles and Clive Smith did a lot of work developing Shakespeare rods though they didn't carry their names, ditto Geoff Salisbury who was instrumental in developing the best of the Normark and Carbotec rods.

Rods endorsed by Ivan Marks seem to be variable from the Lee's Golden Jubilee copy Persuaders in glass to middle of the range Daiwa rods.

I think Alan Scotthorne has had input on the Acolyte rods.

The John Wilson rods were generally cheap rods with only the original Avon being much cop.

Quite often a rod isn't developed as such just the angler gets to pick a standard blank to their taste with a bit of input on the furnishings, probably the case on the Everard rods at the moment.
 

sam vimes

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
183
Location
North Yorkshire.
A name on a rod is no guarantee of anything. Plenty of the Rod Hutchinson rods have been firmly in budget territory. In no way were they premium products.

Similar can be said of many of the endorsed Daiwa rods. Many of the Daiwa Tom Pickering rods have not been at the very top of the Daiwa ranges of the time. That's not to say they weren't decent, just that they weren't always Daiwa's most premium products. I have two different types of Tom Pickering Matchwinner rods. I remember buying them new in the early nineties. In either case, there were at least two rungs above them in price in the Daiwa catalogue.

The exact same scenario exists with the Will Raison endorsed Daiwa rods. I don't remember any of his endorsed rods being top of the range.

Far from assuming that an endorsed product is top of the tree, I'd suggest that you assume that it's not. Fair enough if you know otherwise, just don't take it as read.
 

steve2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
110
Location
on the move
I know that Richard Walker, F J Taylor and and others all endorsed everything from rods to ground bait back in the 50's and 60's but I wonder who was the first to endorse fishing tackle.
Alfred Jardine put his name to snap tackle back in the 1800's but he couldn't have been the first.
 

Peter Jacobs

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
23,370
Reaction score
145
Location
In God's County: Wiltshire
I would totally agree on rods that were endorsed by the likes of Allerton, Dean and Pickering. I have a couple of the Diawa Pickering Amorphous riods and they are excellent.

If you have ever picked up and used a Carbotec (without any endorsemnts) then you'd know what a great rod they are. I have the No3 Feeder and the No3 Float Carbotecs and personally think they have never been bettered.
 

terry m

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
5
Location
New Forest, Hampshire
It’s such a subjective topic, rod preference, that whether it is or is not endorsed is of limited value to most anglers.

I accept that a few may blindly purchase something with this match angler or that carp anglers name scratched on it, but surely most people will go for something that suits their fishing, they like, and fits their budget?
 

David Rogers 3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
411
Reaction score
18
Location
Cheshire
I remember when I bought my first "decent" rod, c.1979, I first handled a Shakespeare Alpha (designed by Clive Smith and Ken Giles, but without their names on the blank) and then picked up a Daiwa Persuader which had Ivan Marks' name on it. I'd assumed in advance that the Persuader was going to feel so much better in the hand because of the great man's endorsement, but it didn't - far from it, in fact: it felt top-heavy and floppy. I bought the Alpha and used it for the next 20 years (and quite wish I still had it)!
 

steve2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
110
Location
on the move
I accept that a few may blindly purchase something with this match angler or that carp anglers name scratched on it, but surely most people will go for something that suits their fishing, they like, and fits their budget?
You would like to think so, but there are plenty out there that must have the latest must haves. Especially if it’s been advertised and endorsed by the latest celebrity carp or match angler.
 

Keith M

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
Messages
3,745
Reaction score
144
Location
Hertfordshire
I remember back in the days when I did a fair amount of Carp fishing I bought a pair of Carp rods from Leslie’s of Luton which were endorsed by the then well known Carp Angler Robin Maylin and they turned out to be two of the worst Carp rods I had used.

A mate and I went to a Carp conference later that year where Robin Maylin was doing a talk, and when I mentioned to him that I’d bought a couple of his rods he replied “so your the one who bought them” :eek:mg:

No wonder that I haven’t heard his name banded about in Carp circles since.

The only thing that they were any good for was a bit of close range Piking and even then they weren’t that good.

I bought two of the original 11ft John Wilson Avon/Quivers back in the early 80s which were excellent rods in their day, and I still use one of these whenever I’m fishing in very tight swims with a lot of overhanging branches, where my more modern rods could easily be damaged; and the JW Avon/Quivers have taken a lot of punishment over the years without too many complaints.
However it seems that subsequent versions of this rod have not been anywhere near as good as the originals were.

Other rods that I’ve had that were indorsed by well known anglers like my two 11ft fibreglass Jim Gibbinson Clooper Carp rods (which I made myself using a couple of rod kits), my 10ft Richard Walker MKIV split cane Carp rod (which I caught my very first Barbel and double figure Carp on), and my 12ft Match International Float rod (which I caught my very first 2lb Roach on), and which was endorsed by Clive Smith and Ken Giles; have all been really excellent rods.

Oh I nearly forgot my very first match rod; the Billy Lane 14ft 6in Enterprise Match rod which had expanded fibreglass at its joints instead of the normal ferrules that we were more used to, and which weighed a ton compared to modern rods. But was in those days still recognised by many as a good Float rod.

But when I buy rods today I often go on recommendations from other good anglers around me and not only on well known names.

Keith
 
Last edited:

sam vimes

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
183
Location
North Yorkshire.
Here's a little tale of endorsements from my days in another sporting sphere. I used to compete at a pretty high level in a couple of little known disciplines. The club I was a member of had a few of the best in the field and I got to know them (and others) pretty well. At one point, one individual was sponsored by a certain company. Despite this, he never appeared to use any of their products, certainly not in competition. At one point the company concerned brought out a new bit of major equipment. The associated magazines had lovely glossy adverts with the sponsored individual pictured and text saying how he used this equipment to great effect. When these adverts first appeared in the press, he'd never even seen the equipment concerned. As it turns out, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't anywhere near good enough for the individual concerned to actually use.
 

markg

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
4,716
Reaction score
130
Location
South East England
They also use to sell Rod Hutchinson branded pellets etc in GoOutdoors, doesn’t seem his name has great value in the modern fishing world.
A bit off topic but many years ago I worked for a TV company and I became good friends with one of the blokes who was a manager of one their shops. Another Mark and an avid carp fisherman, he worked for Ron Hutchinson as an experimenter for his carp baits. He used to mix them up in the back of the TV shop, it was a small shop and he was the only one working there. It often used to create quite a smell and when a customer complained he said it was the drains. Eventually he got rumbled and nearly got the sack but he got away with it, just. However, he did lose his wife to carp fishing, he wouldn't come home one night during a storm so she got rid of him. A dedicated angler in the extreme.
 

mikench

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
14,037
Reaction score
440
Location
leafy cheshire
Thanks to all for your views. Sam would that discipline be in HFT?

I'm not thinking of buying such an endorsed rod, honest; I was merely curious following the article about Rod Hutchinson. I have quite enough rods.:rolleyes:
 

Pete Shears

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
581
Reaction score
11
It seems that there are more products with the 'Rod Hutchinson' name on them since he died than when he was still alive.
An absolutely brilliant writer - The carp strikes back being the best but Rod was firstly a gifted angler not a businessman - he should have trademarked/patented the Scopex flavour,it would have made his fortune.
The nearest I have ever been to copying it was with a fruit drink - pineapple & coconut, it smelt exactly the same.
 
Top