Rods thoughts.

dicky123

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Had a Mail chat with Mr Harrison the other day (name dropper) about a new rod I was interest in.

He explained that some years ago his company tried some of the newer " high modulus " Carbon for their rods. But they did not see any advantages in weight or action, so they stuck with their existing blanks.

Could anyone explain to me in simple terms, what Harrison use for their blanks, and the difference higher modulus blanks are to Harrison?

Imagine you talking to a young boy aged about 10 please!:wh

Thanks.

****y.
 

tigger

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It obvious, the higher modulus carbon has more modules in it lol.
 

thecrow

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Hope the link works.

https://calfeedesign.com/tech-papers/grades-of-carbon-fiber/




What is high modulus carbon?





It is also used to make carbon fiber with a pyrolizing process, which means it is heated to ultra high temperatures to remove all elements except the carbon. Most carbon fiber is sold at this point and it has a tensile modulus of 33 million pounds per square inch (MSI). ( Tensile modulus is a measurement of stiffness.)
 
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sam vimes

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"High Modulus" was one of the terms that marketing types seized on and used to sell gear (and occasionally spell wrong :D). After all, high modulus must be better than low or middling modulus, right?

As far as the end user is concerned, it means nowt. There's also no way of telling whether the high modulus rod you just bought actually is made from high modulus carbon. There's also no guarantee that a rod made from high modulus carbon is actually going to be any better, though it may be more expensive.
 

barbelboi

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Harrison make over 100 different blanks so there should be something for everybody there................:)
 

sam vimes

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Harrison make over 100 different blanks so there should be something for everybody there................:)
There might be for me, if they'd get round to updating their float rods. I find that the GTi match blanks are showing their age. About ten years ago I was told they were due for an update. I would guess that Harrison don't sell many, so aren't that bothered about throwing money in that direction. You can tell by the regular addition of new carp rod blanks that's where the money is. Even the barbel rod blanks are pretty static by comparison.

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------

"High Modulus" was one of the terms that marketing types seized on and used to sell gear (and occasionally spell wrong :D).
As if by magic, I stumbled across an errant "modulas" with a bonus "un-raveled" quality"

https://www.chapmansangling.co.uk/shakespeare-superteam-coarse-rods~13862.html

It turns out that those errors are lifted directly from the Shakespeare website.

http://www.shakespeare-fishing.co.uk/catalogue/rods,20778/coarse,71324/superteam-coarse,8690.html

I wonder if any of these muppets need someone, that actually has some website experience, that has a reasonable command of the English language?
 
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tigger

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In reality I don't think the quality of the higher end fishing rods, or reels has improved much at all...jmo. The reason I say that is because I have rods of 20yrs old and current rods from the same manufacturer...apart from the screw down reel seat and (possibly) being a touch lighter due to lack of varnish and slimmer guides the rods arn't really any different in feel, action or when in use! In fact the older rods have better quality guides and are finished of better!
I spoke to someone at Tri cast earlier this year when enquiring about purchasing a John Allerton Match Waggler rod and the chap at tri-cast told me they hadn't made a upgraded version of the rod as they where at the point that they couldn't improve on it. That tells me that a lot of the improved rods of today are just the same blanks with different graphics, colours names, fittings etc. So anyone who has a nice rod from the last couple of decades, unless it's damaged or you just fancy a change or another rod to try out or to add to your collection I wouldn't bother as you may just feel a little let down.
 

dicky123

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Tigger.

That really was my point, and question in starting the thread. Harrison said the same thing but in a different way. So they stuck with the tried and tested.

I will say though, how does a rod come along now and again thats simply amazing like some of the older Hardy's? They must be high modules I'd guess?

I've a new Harrison Torrid and have to say it's amazing.
 

nottskev

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In reality I don't think the quality of the higher end fishing rods, or reels has improved much at all...jmo. So anyone who has a nice rod from the last couple of decades, unless it's damaged or you just fancy a change or another rod to try out or to add to your collection I wouldn't bother as you may just feel a little let down.
That's exactly what I've found. Apart from an Avon and a barbel rod, my rod-buying seemed to stop around 2003, and many of my float rods are late 1990's. Successive new editions from the same companies seemed more of a step back than a step forward, as even the merely cosmetic makeovers featured cheap and garish colours and graphics. And where the changes were more substantial, I didn't like the way they'd gone.

I'm sure there are some great recent rods out there, but the ones I favour are not only excellent, they've stood the test of time without failing, and I've fitted new reel seats and rings rather than trade "up".

I have some Harrison rods, and they are generally outstanding, but I have to agree that the Gti float rods are showing their age. I bought a 14' float rod - I think it's the Gti blank - in the Leslie's of Luton "Insight" range when the stock was being sold off, and, though it pains me to admit it, it combines being a bit too soft in the tip with being a bit too stiff in the middle section so you wince a bit if you strike into something bigger than you were expecting. I must say the finish and fittings are gorgeous, though.
 

sam vimes

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There is a school of thought that suggests that the highest quality of carbon is now a bit too expensive for use in rod blanks. The higher demand for carbon has supposedly pushed prices to levels higher than would be sensible for rods. More than the odd manufacturer have unceremoniously dumped rods that would exceed £200 from their ranges. They just don't sell well enough to justify keeping them. I've heard more than the odd tale that the highest quality of carbon ever seen in fishing rods was during the nineties.

This is part and parcel of why Carbotec and proper Normark rods disappeared from the market. The quality of the carbon used meant a damned high purchase price. The Carbotecs were the best part of £500 nearly twenty years ago. How many sales were they going to make with a price tag well beyond £500?

However, carbon "quality" isn't the be all and end all. The skill of the blank maker is more important. Some companies innovate by pushing the latest material. Others are more interested in perfecting their use of older (sometimes cheaper), well proven grades of material.

I'm not remotely convinced that match rod blanks are any better now than they were twenty to thirty years ago. They are almost definitely a bit heavier in action. I find that quality fittings (rings and reel seats) are better and lighter now, but I miss proper stand off rings on float rods. Most modern rings are much smaller and closer to the blank than I'd like.
 
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browndog

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The modulus, or more accuratly the Youngs Modulus, is the measurement of the stiffness of a material. Using the words "high modulas" in an advert makes the product seem much better than the low modulus competitor, wether the advertising copywriter has any idea what it means is debatable. It's also debatable wether a stiffer material will actually make a better rod.
 

tigger

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The modulus, or more accuratly the Youngs Modulus, is the measurement of the stiffness of a material. Using the words "high modulas" in an advert makes the product seem much better than the low modulus competitor, wether the advertising copywriter has any idea what it means is debatable. It's also debatable wether a stiffer material will actually make a better rod.


I know im9 carbon was supposed to be one of the siffest and most expensive carbons years ago, the old drennan 14ft im9 float rod was about 240 notes 20 odd years back! If you think about it a stiffer carbon will make a better fast action rod which is just up my street :D.
 

kenpm

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The secret is blending various grades of carbon to achieve the action you want but the highest grades of carbon are not always suitable to manufacture a rod blank,
In recent times there has been more development in the resins used in holding the carbon together than the carbon itself.
 
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In engineering terms 'modulus' refers to a property called Young's Modulus or Modulus of Elasticity or simply Elastic Modulus.

It is a measure of how stiff a material is, i.e. How much it will deflect (in mm say) when a load (a force in Newtons) is applied.

The higher the Modulus of Elasticity for a given material the higher the stiffness.

The formula is E = Stress / Strain

Where stress is force per unit area in Newtons/ mm squared

And strain is the ration of deflection/ original length.

So, a 'high Modulus carbon' is stiffer.

Hope that helps.
 

Philip

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My understanding was in simple terms the higher the modulus of the Carbon the more carbon fibres there were packed together and the less space there was between them. This does seems to tie in with the above remarks as the less space and more fibers there are, the stiffer the weave and blank will become. Of course there will eventually be a tipping point were the rod becomes too stuff to be of any real use.
 
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I'm not remotely convinced that match rod blanks are any better now than they were twenty to thirty years ago. They are almost definitely a bit heavier in action. I find that quality fittings (rings and reel seats) are better and lighter now, but I miss proper stand off rings on float rods. Most modern rings are much smaller and closer to the blank than I'd like.
My main rods are a Shimano Antares 13ft float, and a couple of Harrison blanks, 12ft 6in two piece barbel rod, 1.75lb test curve. My latest for heavier carp float fishing is a GTI SU 13ft. I find both the Harrison rods excellent with 5 -7lb line, usually the lighter line as personal choice. The Shimano Antares I had to have re eyed due to the poor eyes fitted at source, but certainly not a young rod, but i thought worth spending the money on new eyes. I use this with 3 or 4lb line for silver fishing and carp upto about 8-9lb.
I have since bought and past on more modern lighter rods, which I never really settled with. Preferring the more through action of the older style rods
 
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