SALTER SALUTED FOR SERVICES TO ANGLING

Peter Jacobs

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Yes, not so easy. I'll just keep on until a mod blocks me and I'll respect his decision.

Unlike this statement :)

"Well Geoff, it didn't seem to worry Mr. Blair that he would upset 750,000 Huntsmen and associated workers..."

Which is a bit of a spin on the facts - but I guess you pro-hunting supporters have to make some kind of effort to make it appear more popular than it really is. How many horses go fox-hunting Peter? Also 750,00? Or would the number be closer to 7,500? This to me would reflect the true number of the Fox-hunting community.

No 'spin' at all Geoff, here are a few documented facts:

The Boxing day Hunt of 2006 attracted 320,000 riders and associated hunt officials

There are 185 Registered Active hunts in England and Wales as of November 2008. That number has incresed since the undemocratic ban in February 2005.

The 'demonstration' attracted 400,000 people, who were totally ignored by the polictical executve in the House of Commons.
(I wonder how many anglers we could mobilise onto Parliament Square if needs ever arose?)

For the record; I do not Hunt myself although I hope my daughter will one day become proficient enough to join the local Hunt.

I am personally in favour of Fox Hunting with Dogs in England and Wales.

I am totally against the undemocratic manner in which the government invoked the Parliament Act to force a bill that could not achieve House of Lords approval.

The Parliament Act destroys all of the political checks and balances that have been in force in our Country for hundreds of years and hands Executive Soveriegnty to the PM of the day; thereby rendering any challenge to his power impossible. Democracy?

Finally, this stupid act made absolutely no provision whatsoever for controlling the population of the verminous fox - really clever that one.

Regarding comments from other contributors vis-a-vis 'illegal hunting' maybe they would care to provide evidence to back up their comments, providing of course that they fully understand the act in the first place. For instance, the Act makes it illegal to hunt a mouse with dogs, but not a rat, you can hunt with 2 dogs flushing a fox to the gun legally but 3 is ilegal. Although you can hunt with as many dogs as you like providing that you are flushing the fox to a bird of prey (?)

Appologies for the 'rant' but this is a topic that brings out the best and the worst in me, from a standpoint of both democratic right and constitutional correctness.
 
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904_cannon

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...but Peter,(sub title Ron) this thread was/is about Martin Salter and the sterling work he's done for angling and anglers, not about hunting and bloodsports. I also note that the David from the pop duo 'Boys George and David' is cooling on the repeal of the hunting act

I have just three word for Martin RESPECT & THANK YOU

We could yet have a spokesman in The Lords :)
 

geoffmaynard

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True John, but a thread about Politicians will naturally evolve to include politics. The only reason we got this press release was for political reasons for instance - to keep Mr Salter in the public eye. Every time this thread is answered, it goes to the top of the 'Latest Posts' list, and Mr Salter's name is re-promoted, so I don't mind the thread evolving and I'm sure he don't either.

So Peter: I see spin again, sorry: "attracted 320,000 riders and associated hunt officials". Who are they then? Wives, kids, relatives and employees of those riders probably. I ask again, how many horses are there? Because That will give the true indicator of Huntsmen numbers involved (like using license sals to count freshwater anglers).

If there are "750,000 Huntsmen and associated workers" (there y'go again) of which you reckon 320K are the hard core, and if there are "185 Registered Active hunts" they would need to have 1729 horses on each hunt. Which they don't of course. They have a few dozen each. So those sums don't add up and the numbers are all spin. The truth I suspect is that the pro-hunt lobby have very influential voices in places of power and they used them with all the weight they could muster. It's still a tiny minority who actually practice fox-hunting and their days are numbered but drag-hunting will replace it. These are stone cold facts as I see it.
 

Peter Jacobs

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Hope you like these figures better Geoff:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Attendance[/FONT]

273 hunts have a total of 28,300 subscribers, including members (100 per hunt).

205 hunts have a total of 39,000 supporters club members (190 per hunt).

158 mounted packs average 13 mounted visitors per hunting day. This is an annual attendance
of 176,700 day visitors per season.

273 hunts hold a total of 18,000 hunting days each season.

Total annual 'attendance' at all meets is 1,280,000 persons of 541,000 (42%) are on horses
and 741,000 (58%) are on foot.

Fox hunts caught 13,987 foxes last season.

285 hunts organise over 21 different types of equestrian and social events.
Each year this totals 3,950 functions with an overall attendance of 1,326,000 people.




John,

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement regarding Martin - Respect indeed.

Personally though I'd see his post HoC job to be more likely within the Angling Trust than in the House of Lords (?)

After all, who better knows the political "players" on the scene?
 

geoffmaynard

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No Peter. Loads of massaged figures again! Example:

"158 mounted packs average 13 mounted visitors per hunting day. This is an annual attendance of 176,700 day visitors per season"

158 x 13 = 2054, yet these figures spin it to look like 176,700 people. If we did that with anglers per day-fishing we could claim 50 million anglers in the country.
"Subscribers" and "supporters" are irrelevant and meaningless numbers.
The number of foxes killed is also irrelevant as one man with a rifle and night-sight can humanely kill the pests far more efficiently than horses and dog-packs.

We'll never agree on this. I know I'm right and I'm pretty sure you know I'm right too :) (End of sermon and bows out of thread)
 

Peter Jacobs

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We'll never agree on this. I know I'm right and I'm pretty sure you know I'm right too

You are right, we will never agree and no amount of published statistics will ever convince you.

As to being 'right' we will agree to disagree on that too.

Time to put this one to bed, noting that we do at least agree that foxes are 'pests'
 
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