Simplifying floats

[Aknib]

I’m not talking about types of floats here, nor shotting patterns, I’m talking about…

Numbers!

I’m just embarking on what will no doubt be yet another journey taking several months and I’m assembling a collection of handmade river floats similar to the stillwater collections that I made three or four years ago, it’s always been the intention to add a river collection but you know how it is with time, motivation and all that.

Anyway it got me thinking, during the planning stage, of what I actually want to end up with and I reckon sixty or so floats will about cover my needs.

Now, given that half of that figure will be replicated in a black tipped variant I’m covering all of my river needs with thirty or so floats.

So why, during my many years before, did I feel the need to have two or even three times that many river floats?

Sticks, shouldered sticks, both Avon variants, lignum sticks, wire stemmed sticks, shallow water sticks (got to say they are excellent DH) double up for the black tipped equivalents and the list is just as endless as the stillwater patterns but the thing that stands out most in my mind is the incremental variety in size.

Do we really need 2 x no.4, 3 x no.4, 4 x no4 and so on?

At the cutting edge of match fishing where a fish might make the difference between a brown envelope or being an also ran then I’m inclined to think yes but on the more general pleasure fishing stage, where overthinking often leads to under enjoyment, I’m thinking no.

I’m not cutting any corners and if I genuinely believed that I needed two hundred river floats then I would set out to make them but I honestly don’t.

So what’s your take on it, do you really need so many sizes of each pattern of float?

Are you of the opinion that anything less is turning out under equipped or maybe you think you can adapt your approach to compensate?

 

[peterjg]

I think that you're right. However; I still do tend to take too many floats. I regularly sort through them and reduce the number that I actually take but somehow they always find their way back into my float boxes!? I must have hundreds of spare (mostly homemade) floats and yet I still keep making more.

 

[ian g]

Must admit I'm the same .

 

[Aknib]

And so it begins...

Not exactly pretty at this stage but I'm hoping for better things

Joking aside it's the stage where I always feel like turning my back on it all, building up the paint layers and sanding back before repeating the whole process to a point where I'm happy to varnish.

I cut the stems long for these as a bit of an experiment, I've still got the option to cut them back but I reckon I might run with them to see if it improves or hinders their control.

 

[Aknib]

A bit of an afterthought regarding wire and long stems.

Firstly…

Wire wouldn’t ideally figure in my ideal traditional float collection (I know, I never mentioned the word ‘traditional’ earlier) but having cut my teeth on the Trent and upper Witham in the early eighties whilst aspiring to the likes of Dean, Barlow, Swinscoe, Slaymaker, Thomas, Porter, Perry et al it would be nothing less than a crime not to include a bit of wire here and there and let’s face it the material is pretty much beyond reproach when used appropriately.

Which brings things around to ‘appropriately’.

I see anglers using wire stemmed sticks in swims where there is really no need, no fast pace or turbulence to cut through yet still they work and I’m a subscriber to anything that does many things well as opposed to one thing exceptionally well.

So…

Let’s say I’m wrong and those wire stemmed sticks are offering some sort of advantage in those swims where I reckon they’re not necessary.

How about combining their use with extra-long stems which in turn add extra cocking weight to maybe give you an advantage in control (?) and casting weight whilst allowing you to use a lighter shotting pattern?

Well, bang goes the Lignum stick for a start or maybe not, how about a wire stemmed Lignum stick which could be strung with no.8's?

Interesting innit?

I think, if you have the circumstance that requires it, then make it.

Thirty years ago things like pellet wagglers would have caused a panic and now look, some (including myself) have made extraordinarily long floats approaching eighteen inches in length to combat large stillwaters that are prone to strong undertow and whist these might be too niche to provide commercially available offerings their effectiveness is beyond question.

Wire… Stems… Length…

What do you reckon?

 

[peterjg]

I'm certainly not arguing with your theory, it could be spot on. Having experimented with different set ups I found that just by having a shot or two directly beneath a cane stemmed Avon or even a balsa gives the same effect plus I don't have to carry yet more floats? Probably I am over simplifying?

 

[no-one in particular]

bbb. Thats my limit , three bb floats or two bb floats, anything else I get confused. Does make life easier but I don't exactly fill my boots with fish so your doing something right Aknib, stick with your floats.

 

[rayner]

Now I only ever fish still waters IE commercials my float choices are limited to wagglers, the only difference is stepped or straight with different lengths.
The longest is 15 inches to get bellow surface tow down to only a couple of inches for margins. Paint choice is black with the occasionable white tip.
Either peacock or reed I did buy some balsa but got sidetracked, the balsa is in a drawer and could just stay there.
They are true scabby floats.

 

[silvers]

Back nearly 30 years ago the Image float company made two versions of their stick float.
first was called a speed stick and featured a normal length alloy stem.
the second was the so-called “steady stick” with a long wire stem akin to that in your photo.
albeit both models had a more pointed top than your domed model.

the extra long wire seemed to make the steady Version much easier to mend line to when fished further out, as well as more resistant to being pulled off line. It was almost as if it acted like a keel.

Mark Bird was a very good float designer and maker.

 

[peterjg]

Re the previous post - that is a really good point - longer floats are easier to mend and are not pulled so easily off track. Unpopular but I like trotting floats with vanes glued into the balsa bodies. I use pieces of ice cream or butter tubs, put 4 cuts into the balsa body with a scalpel and araldite the pieces of thin plastic in place. The 4 vanes protrude about 3/16inch. These floats are great with a centrepin and are easy to mend when trotting.

 

[Keith M]

Nice sticks Aknib.

Just a thought; was there a reason why you didn’t give your stick floats any small shoulders?

NB: I much prefer to have my sticks with a small shoulder so that they don’t tend to ride up as much in the water when I hold them back or I mend my line.

Keith

 

[no-one in particular]

Re the previous post - that is a really good point - longer floats are easier to mend and are not pulled so easily off track. Unpopular but I like trotting floats with vanes glued into the balsa bodies. I use pieces of ice cream or butter tubs, put 4 cuts into the balsa body with a scalpel and araldite the pieces of thin plastic in place. The 4 vanes protrude about 3/16inch. These floats are great with a centrepin and are easy to mend when trotting.

Are flute floats good for that Peter, I have one but have never used it, I am not very good at mending line, usually tend to drag the float but thinking of trying this flute float. I don't think I see them anymore, They used to be about quite a lot in the 60's.

 

[peterjg]

Markg, for some unknown reason they are rarely used? They are really good and work well, **** Walker used them and wrote that they "grip" the water. They tend not to be pulled off course and are no more or no less resistant to a downward pull from a fish. They do take longer to make though. Decades ago when using inferior centrepins they were useful to help to turn the reel spool on my cheap old reels when trotting.

 

[no-one in particular]

Markg, for some unknown reason they are rarely used? They are really good and work well, **** Walker used them and wrote that they "grip" the water. They tend not to be pulled off course and are no more or no less resistant to a downward pull from a fish. They do take longer to make though. Decades ago when using inferior centrepins they were useful to help to turn the reel spool on my cheap old reels when trotting.

Thanks Peter, I think I will give it a go next time I get on the river. Might be worth trying to make one, like your vaned version but using thin sanded down bits of balsa for the planes or adapted long bits of sea gull feathers varnished over to make stiff, there's a thought.

 

[theartist]

Let’s say I’m wrong and those wire stemmed sticks are offering some sort of advantage in those swims where I reckon they’re not necessary.

How about combining their use with extra-long stems which in turn add extra cocking weight to maybe give you an advantage in control (?) and casting weight whilst allowing you to use a lighter shotting pattern?

Well, bang goes the Lignum stick for a start or maybe not, how about a wire stemmed Lignum stick which could be strung with no.8's?

Interesting innit?

I've got some lignum wire sticks, not sure who made them but they work well, also had the odd weighted wire stick and they work well too, if they had extra long stems though they would be rubbing bottom on a lot of the rivers I fish

Also pretty guilty of using wire stems everywhere, even on the canal and ponds at times, and in the sea, I can't work with those cigar sea floats so use an avon or bolo there too. I just find they work best with the strike wherever i'm fishing, there's less resistance on the strike as the float will be cocking almost 90 degrees in any sideways strike. The wider the float's bottom area the more water resistance there is surely. When I've used non wired sticks the strike hasn't felt as crisp. Plus there's the old boily swim attributes and wire stemmed floats are much easier to make using an old drill as a lathe.

 

[ian g]

I believe Drake make some stick floats with a brass rod fitted , a mate of mine uses them on the Dane for shallow runs . I think it lets you use a reasonably heavy float in shallow water with not to much weight down the line . Work well with a centre pin , I know you could just put bulk shot beneath the float but it's neater .

 

[no-one in particular]

I believe Drake make some stick floats with a brass rod fitted , a mate of mine uses them on the Dane for shallow runs . I think it lets you use a reasonably heavy float in shallow water with not to much weight down the line . Work well with a centre pin , I know you could just put bulk shot beneath the float but it's neater .

My cheap bodge version of that was using plastic straws filled with shot and sealed each end and sealed again where the shot line was; basically a self cocking float or a semi self cocking float but they worked well enough. They could cast a long way and very visible and you can mix these up any size, colour and weight you want.

 

[no-one in particular]

I've got some lignum wire sticks, not sure who made them but they work well, also had the odd weighted wire stick and they work well too, if they had extra long stems though they would be rubbing bottom on a lot of the rivers I fish

Also pretty guilty of using wire stems everywhere, even on the canal and ponds at times, and in the sea, I can't work with those cigar sea floats so use an avon or bolo there too. I just find they work best with the strike wherever i'm fishing, there's less resistance on the strike as the float will be cocking almost 90 degrees in any sideways strike. The wider the float's bottom area the more water resistance there is surely. When I've used non wired sticks the strike hasn't felt as crisp. Plus there's the old boily swim attributes and wire stemmed floats are much easier to make using an old drill as a lathe.

I am not over keen on those big cigar sea floats either Art, you can get thinner ones though, I have a few of each but opt for the smallest floats possible, in a calm sea I use some big Avon type floats for fishing down the jetty.

 

[Aknib]

					Nice sticks Aknib. Just a thought; was there a reason why you didn’t give your stick floats any small shoulders? NB: I much prefer to have my sticks with a small shoulder so that they don’t tend to ride up as much in the water when I hold them back or I mend my line. Keith There's no real reason Keith, to be honest they're the standard form in which the bodies come although there are shouldered Avon versions available from the same outlet.

 

[theartist]

I

I am not over keen on those big cigar sea floats either Art, you can get thinner ones though, I have a few of each but opt for the smallest floats possible, in a calm sea I use some big Avon type floats for fishing down the jetty.

I once used a 4no4 wire stick off Weymouth pier, caught wrasse with it too, put it this way there was no chance of missing the bites. I'll remember till the day I die trying to grab the float in the wind each time, one of those abiding memories that just seems funny every time I recall it.