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markcw

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Doesn't picking the right peg just prove there is a lot of luck in match fishing. They can also only catch and win from a decent peg. I have heard it said many times "we drew the rubbish pegs".
Some of these blokes could catch fish in a flannel.
Some pegs on Lymm Dam at certain times of the year had shoal fish in them.
You could fish there one day and bag up , go a few days later and struggle.
 

steve2

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No type fishing is difficult we just like to make it seem so. We like all the gadgets and gizmos that in many cases make a very simple pastime much more difficult.

After all what is angling apart from a fool on one end and a worm on the other?
 

steve2

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Some of these blokes could catch fish in a flannel.
Some pegs on Lymm Dam at certain times of the year had shoal fish in them.
You could fish there one day and bag up , go a few days later and struggle.
That is the the same on every water I have ever fished. Even on overstocked commercials.
 

markcw

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And the more they practise, the luckier they get.
Anyone who thinks top match anglers need a lesson in humility can just book in and prove their point.
Kev, I have known Andy May one of the top angling coaches in the country since he used to fish Lymm Junior matches.
He is a top bloke and not afraid to ask other anglers on what they are catching on when he is coaching and the venue is fishing hard.
He did this on Partridge Lakes Covey canal. One of the most prolific waters in the north west.Everyone was scratching for bites, he had a coaching day. I think he stayed with it and gave the lad a free days coaching to make up for it.At least the lad learnt how to scratch around for bits. 😄
 

markcw

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No type fishing is difficult we just like to make it seem so. We like all the gadgets and gizmos that in many cases make a very simple pastime much more difficult.

After all what is angling apart from a fool on one end and a worm on the other?
We also seem to take to much gear with us,
At on time it was box/ basket with nets strapped to top of box, on your back, couple of rods and landing net handle strapped to crossbar of bike and away you went.
My present net bag is like a small suitcase, holds 4 keepnets and 3 landing net heads.
The bags for Poole rollers, spray bar , couple of holdalls one for pole the othe for rods . You get the gist ..
 

markg

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It’s easy to denigrate any type of fishing in this way. Like match fishing the most successful at it are usually the same group of people.

I don’t sea fish at all presently, but there was a period in my life when I boat fished at least once a fortnight and often more frequently.

Boat-casting for bass and stingray in the Thames estuary had a certain set of skills, in a way not dissimilar to feeder fishing on a river.

The dropping it in and just waiting for a bite is not much different to carp fishing or dead baiting for pike at a basic level but doing only that isn’t the most successful way of doing it. Varying your tactics by; presenting the bait differently, using a variety of baits, using live-baits, using artificial baits, fishing a static or moving bait, casting up-tide to avoid the noise from the boat’s hull are just some of the methods you can employ . There are just as many ways to improve your chances as there are in coarse fishing, you just have to know them and how or when to use them to your best advantage.


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Not disagreeing with that Ray, there are all types of boat fishing in the sea, some take thought and skill. I was just referring to the times I used to go out in a big boat in the English Channel, anchor up and just drop the bait down, it wasn't that easy, as said getting a big skate up from those depths was a challenge. I was just thinking it as the easiest as I had the least to think about and the least to do than any other type of angling I have done. The skipper chose the marks, even put my bait on, some of them did anyway, I didn't have much to think about, I just caught fish.
 

grayson

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bbb

If we had met I am sure I could have taught you most of what you know in a morning. As to fish behavior, trout are no more easily spooked than any fish in shallow clear water if that is what you mean, it's just that trout are often in water like that that gives the impression they are more difficult than other fish. As to fooling them into taking your fly, that's just luck.
I only spoke as I found, I did not have much trouble or time learning to fly fish or how to be stealthy, spot places they may be if not actually see them, they are not difficult to work out, I expect you will call it water-craft like it is some mysterious art that only very intelligent people can learn and takes years.; I could sum it up on one page of a book. I caught a fish within an hour, quite a difficult cast actually. None of its rocket science, it doesn't take a A level, I started by looking at a couple of diagrams in a book that's all, once on the bank with a very old split cane fly rod (I had inherited it) I had it mastered in no time, fishing small streams was no more difficult, learned a bit of gentle roll casting and how to flick a fly to where I wanted, actually it was easier, no big long casts needed most of the time. I still fly fish now and then for mullet or coarse fish, catch a few small chub and perch here and there, nothing difficult never caught a mullet though.
Matching a fly to what the fish are taking, as long as you have good selection with you and your not blind, what's the big deal.
I am not saying it was all that easy but most of it was not difficult.
Any Neanderthal from a commercial could learn it in a day; probably less.
Of course; if only I had known the error of my ways ... My last word on the subject is that the basics of fly fishing , as in any other discipline of the sport can be relatively easy to master , but you can spend the rest of your life perfecting it . Why don't you join me on one of my waters and show me how it's done?
 

markg

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Of course; if only I had known the error of my ways ... My last word on the subject is that the basics of fly fishing , as in any other discipline of the sport can be relatively easy to master , but you can spend the rest of your life perfecting it . Why don't you join me on one of my waters and show me how it's done?
Don't get the hump, I love reading your posts it's just I don't agree with you when you make out it is some sort of superior art that only superior anglers can do, or even get close to being good at it; in my experience it is not, far from it. Like any branch of angling you can get better at it with practice and experience but, that's the point it is no different even in that respect than any other form of angling.
 
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grayson

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The inconvenient truth is that you react to things I haven't actually said. I have never suggested that fly fishing is 'a superior art only superior anglers can do'. I loathe snobbery of any type and would never claim that one branch of the sport was , to reverse your statement, an 'inferior art only inferior people do '. That doesn't mean I don't have strong views about subjects as diverse as the parody of the sport some commercial match fishing represents , the taciturnity of some carpers or snobbery on the part of anybody - from syndicate piker to chalk stream dry fly guy . On the latter , by the way, by far the most damning book review I've ever written was by the late Graham Mole , a chalk stream guy who was almost comically rude about coarse fishing.

In a long fishing life I've enjoyed fishing everything from a canal for gudgeon to fly fishing on the Test, from stick float fishing for dace to salmon fishing on the Tay and drifting the wild lochs of Sutherland . And it 's all just fishing - every facet can be as wonderful, as hard or as easy as you make it, none is inherently better or worse than any other and in every discipline you never stop learning .
 

whitty

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All forms of angling have the better fisherman,fly angling is the same,matches on the ressies have their top men,again fish with them,a lesson would be taught,top match anglers repeatedly draw better than anyone else,lol,they can win off mediocre pegs,the cream always comes to the top...
 

Philip

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If we had met I am sure I could have taught you most of what you know in a morning. As to fish behavior, trout are no more easily spooked than any fish in shallow clear water if that is what you mean, it's just that trout are often in water like that that gives the impression they are more difficult than other fish. As to fooling them into taking your fly, that's just luck.
I only spoke as I found, I did not have much trouble or time learning to fly fish or how to be stealthy, spot places they may be if not actually see them, they are not difficult to work out, I expect you will call it water-craft like it is some mysterious art that only very intelligent people can learn and takes years.; I could sum it up on one page of a book. I caught a fish within an hour, quite a difficult cast actually. None of its rocket science, it doesn't take a A level, I started by looking at a couple of diagrams in a book that's all, once on the bank with a very old split cane fly rod (I had inherited it) I had it mastered in no time, fishing small streams was no more difficult, learned a bit of gentle roll casting and how to flick a fly to where I wanted, actually it was easier, no big long casts needed most of the time. I still fly fish now and then for mullet or coarse fish, catch a few small chub and perch here and there, nothing difficult never caught a mullet though.
Matching a fly to what the fish are taking, as long as you have good selection with you and your not blind, what's the big deal.
I am not saying it was all that easy but most of it was not difficult.
Any Neanderthal from a commercial could learn it in a day; probably less.
A tad harsh on Grayson perhaps but I sort of get where your coming from.

A lot is made of certain branches of angling like they are on a pedestal above others. A prime example is trotting especially with a centerpin like its some sort of lost art form. Passion for Angling has a lot to blame for that I recon and spawned a whole generation of anglers who want to feel like they are Bob James on a frosty morning by the river.

The fact is when you break it down there really isnt that much to trotting. People will wax lyrical about it & make it seem there is some sort of magic behind things like slowing the float down with your finger on the reel drum or mending the line to stop the float dragging off course and so on but other than casting which takes a bit of practice (and in reality is less about skill and more about the angler being forced to work around the naffness of the reel) I really dont see any great skill in using a centerpin.

Probably the greatest skill is suppressing your desire to chuck the thing in the middle of the river when you suffer yet another tangle with it. :)
 
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sam vimes

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Probably the greatest skill is suppressing your desire to chuck the thing in the middle of the river when you suffer yet another tangle with it.

Hang on a moment. You've just told us how simple it is and how little skill is required. Why would you be frustrated by tangles and casting? Centrepins are easy to use, aren't they? Football is a pretty simple game yet not everyone is as good as Ronaldo. Most people can drive, it's not that difficult, yet we aren't all getting paid fortunes as motor racing drivers. How can that possibly be? There are any number of things that are, in essence, pretty simple. That does not mean that doing them well requires no skill.

There is no great mystique about using centrepins (trotting or not). In theory, there's nothing more simple (which can be said about any form of angling). However, to use them well takes practice and some skill (which can also be said about any form of angling). Those skills can certainly be learned. Whether you are remotely interested in doing so is another matter entirely.

The only reason I persisted with centrepins is a stubborn streak, plenty of free time and liking the aesthetics of centrepins (looks and fish playing). Fishing pacey rivers where pins are well suited is another factor. My initial frustrations revolved around tangles and casting limitations. Quite a few years on, those frustrations are totally banished by a combination of practice, experience and well suited gear. I can cast as far as I could with fixed spool reels and I get no more tangles than with fixed spool reels. I still don't really understand why folks use pins when all they fish are really slow rivers and stillwaters, but each to their own, as long as they are happy. As for the Bob James stuff, sod that, I've no desire to emulate him. A Passion For Angling actually put me right off centrepins for years. I didn't (and still don't) want to be associated with the image they portrayed.
 

INearlyCaughtOne

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Not sure but I know a lot of anglers who turn it into a "how many you caught competition" Personally it's not about the catch for me but the chance to get out and do something different surrounded by nature and if I catch, GREAT! If not, so what...
 

markcw

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Not sure but I know a lot of anglers who turn it into a "how many you caught competition" Personally it's not about the catch for me but the chance to get out and do something different surrounded by nature and if I catch, GREAT! If not, so what...
When I go with one of my friends, we are like Mortimer and Whitehouse ,putting the world to rights and enjoying the day.
But we always have a £1 side bet on who had the best catch, it could be most fish caught , biggest fish or biggest estimated weight.
This started many years ago as a bit of fun, after a small club match we were in. We both weighed the same for third place, I wanted a reweigh , he beat me on the reweigh by a few ounces. I blame the extra water on the weigh net and my fish shrinking.
 

nottskev

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I still don't really understand why folks use pins when all they fish are really slow rivers and stillwaters, but each to their own, as long as they are happy. As for the Bob James stuff, sod that, I've no desire to emulate him. A Passion For Angling actually put me right off centrepins for years. I didn't (and still don't) want to be associated with the image they portrayed.

I'll use pins for still or running water for exactly the reasons you mention - looks and fish playing, plus lightness and a tactile appeal fs's don't have.
I entirely agree with your PFA comments. Aesthetically, way too much self-conscious, soft focus, English Heritage cliche, and socially, in terms of waters and personnel, too exclusive and m/c for me.
 

steve2

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First used centre pins in the 1950's and have always had and used a them. To me they are limited in what they do but they do look a lot better on a rod than fixed spool reels and playing fish does feel so different.
Certainly could not see myself casting lures with them like they did 100 years ago.
 

Philip

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Probably the greatest skill is suppressing your desire to chuck the thing in the middle of the river when you suffer yet another tangle with it. :)

The line you quoted me on included a smily which you removed for some reason. It was clearly tounge in cheek.

Hang on a moment. You've just told us how simple it is and how little skill is required. Why would you be frustrated by tangles and casting? Centrepins are easy to use, aren't they? Football is a pretty simple game yet not everyone is as good as Ronaldo. Most people can drive, it's not that difficult, yet we aren't all getting paid fortunes as motor racing drivers. How can that possibly be? There are any number of things that are, in essence, pretty simple. That does not mean that doing them well requires no skill.

There is no great mystique about using centrepins (trotting or not). In theory, there's nothing more simple (which can be said about any form of angling). However, to use them well takes practice and some skill (which can also be said about any form of angling). Those skills can certainly be learned. Whether you are remotely interested in doing so is another matter entirely.

The only reason I persisted with centrepins is a stubborn streak, plenty of free time and liking the aesthetics of centrepins (looks and fish playing). Fishing pacey rivers where pins are well suited is another factor. My initial frustrations revolved around tangles and casting limitations. Quite a few years on, those frustrations are totally banished by a combination of practice, experience and well suited gear. I can cast as far as I could with fixed spool reels and I get no more tangles than with fixed spool reels.

Simple to use does not always mean problem free. I am also not doubting practice makes perfect which I agree applies to any branch of angling, the point I was quite clearly making was to do with certain methods such as trotting with a float being made out to be special or extra difficult to do.

That aside if you dont suffer more tangles and can cast as far with a pin as a FS then hats off to you, I suspect your in a microscopic minority and most people will suffer more tangles with a pin and can cast further with a FS.
 
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sam vimes

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The line you quoted me on included a smily which you removed for some reason. It was clearly tounge in cheek.

The last line most certainly was and I took it that way. The rest I just assumed to be bait, forum fishing.

That aside if you dont suffer more trangles and can cast as far with a pin as a FS then hats off to you, I suspect your in a microscropic minority and most people will suffer more tangles with a pin and can cast further with a FS.

Lets make this abundantly clear, just in case it wasn't already. I can cast just as far with a centrepin, and suffer no more tangles than with a fixed spool reel, when trotting. I don't tend to use centrepins for anything else (for a reason). However, unlike some, I would never cast a top and bottom float overhead like I would with a waggler. This undoubtedly helps with being able to cast just as far. I dare say that still leaves me in a minority. However, it's nothing that can't be achieved with the right reels, a dash of good instruction and a lot of practice.

I'm by no means a casting master. However, whilst I'm not the best, I'm a lot better than average. Of the limited numbers of pin users I see on my local rivers, few seem to have much of a clue. I can only wonder why some bother. A lot are largely wasting their time. However, as long as they are enjoying themselves, it's all good.
 
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