Talk to me about Roach.

[chrisjpainter]

The other day my lure rod snapped on me. Cue much wailing and gnashing of teeth, sack cloth and ashes and mournful poems as it makes its way back to Daiwa for its post mortem. But it's given me a new focus on my local lake (it's kidding no one. It's a pond). It's about an acre and is (over)stocked with a lot of carp and tench, with some reasonable bream and a heck of a lot of silvers. But there are some really decent roach to be had (1.5lb +), so I thought I'd have a crack at them, but roach aren't a species I know well, given that jerkbaits or boilies don't work so well for them.

Maggots seem to catch a lot of roach and rudd (there are shed loads), but getting past the 1-5oz ones is next to impossible and anything with a slow descent gets annihilated by tiddlers. I had a couple of hours this afternoon and had one to 1lb 5oz on popped up sweetcorn, which was heart-warming. Sweetcorn can be a mixed blessing though - there's a big head of double figure carp and sweetcorn gets them all excited too.

Any advice on avoiding the tench and carp and getting through to the bigger roach would be great. I was thinking feeder rod tactics. I'm not averse to trying the float, but I'm more comfortable with a feeder rod, so I thought I'd start there. Anything on rigs, loose feeding tactics, hook patterns...answers to questions I didn't know I needed to ask: all of it's welcome!

EDIT: TIME OF DAY?
Fishing's from dawn to dusk (ish ) on the lake, but I can book in overnight sessions too. I know people do well on rivers in the last knockings of light. Is it worth fishing an evening/night, lobbing a fire-and-forget rod out for the carp and then spending a few hours in the dusk and dark targeting the roach? Is time of year a factor for this?

 

[no-one in particular]

Your going to get a lot of different advice on this one. I can only tell you what I would try in such a situation, A 10-14 hook with a piece of crust. Anchored just off the bottom with a couple of BB's or maybe something heavier, maybe more shot or something simple like a small weight, float fished or quiver tipped maybe. I would make the crust with most of the air squeezed out of it but not all so it pops up a bit. This should sink fast enough to avoid the small fry in mid water. Roach love a piece of crust and the small fry are less likely to attack it although they will but not as much as say a piece of soft flake. Push your hook through the soft bit of crust and out the hard side and twist it round a bit and back into the crust, stays on the hook pretty well, I sometimes use a baiting needle to do this, size about 1/4 to an 1 inch.
Ground bait sparingly with a few lumps of bread but not too much. Fish your bait a bit away from the groundbait area, Avoiding the other fish is impossible, I doubt there is a bait that will do this, sweetcorn would be my other bait for big roach, the small fry leave it alone mostly but, it will not avoid other fish and it can be hit or miss but you have had one good roach on it. The crust can be excellent for big roach, they suck it in once it has gone soft a bit and bites are positive.
A whole lobworm or a tail of one could be an answer but again I doubt it will avoid tench and carp. carry on experimenting but once you find one way and one bait, another day something different will work, I often find that with roach, it's just what works on the day. I had two nice roach the other day on a river using bread stationary on the bottom but I used white bread then put on the hook by my what I call sausage roll, roll a piece of flake round the line above the hook but leave the hook end fluffy, squeeze the other end hard to sink it and pull the hook back in to the soft bit. The fish will always go for the soft bit first and the hook is hidden but not masked. It is just keep trying different things on the day and find one that is working. Good luck,

I did read of a good way to use bread the other day, cut a disc out and fold it in half and just squeeze the middle of it, put the hook once through the squeezed bit, the bloke had done a lot of experimenting with bread and he reckoned this was the best way, for looking good in the water as it fluffed up and actually hooking more fish, far better than the standard way of squeezing a bit on the shank of the hook which he reckons just missing fish as often the hook is too masked. I tried it the other day and it looks like it is a good idea although I eventually hooked two fish on one my old methods, but I can see what he was saying.

 

[chrisjpainter]

Your going to get a lot of different advice on this one. I can only tell you what I would try in such a situation, A 10-14 hook with a piece of crust. Anchored just off the bottom with a couple of BB's or maybe something heavier, maybe more shot or something simple like a small weight, float fished or quiver tipped maybe. I would make the crust with most of the air squeezed out of it but not all so it pops up a bit. This should sink fast enough to avoid the small fry in mid water. Roach love a piece of crust and the small fry are less likely to attack it although they will but not as much as say a piece of soft flake. Push your hook through the soft bit of crust and out the hard side and twist it round a bit and back into the crust, stays on the hook pretty well, I sometimes use a baiting needle to do this, size about 1/4 to an 1 inch.
Ground bait sparingly with a few lumps of bread but not too much. Fish your bait a bit away from the groundbait area, Avoiding the other fish is impossible, I doubt there is a bait that will do this, sweetcorn would be my other bait for big roach, the small fry leave it alone mostly but, it will not avoid other fish and it can be hit or miss but you have had one good roach on it. The crust can be excellent for big roach, they suck it in once it has gone soft a bit and bites are positive.
A whole lobworm or a tail of one could be an answer but again I doubt it will avoid tench and carp. carry on experimenting but once you find one way and one bait, another day something different will work, I often find that with roach, it's just what works on the day. I had two nice roach the other day on a river using bread stationary on the bottom but I used white bread then put on the hook by my what I call sausage roll, roll a piece of flake round the line above the hook but leave the hook end fluffy, squeeze the other end hard to sink it and pull the hook back in to the soft bit. The fish will always go for the soft bit first and the hook is hidden but not masked. It is just keep trying different things on the day and find one that is working. Good luck,

I did read of a good way to use bread the other day, cut a disc out and fold it in half and just squeeze the middle of it, put the hook once through the squeezed bit, the bloke had done a lot of experimenting with bread and he reckoned this was the best way, for looking good in the water as it fluffed up and actually hooking more fish, far better than the standard way of squeezing a bit on the shank of the hook which he reckons just missing fish as often the hook is too masked. I tried it the other day and it looks like it is a good idea although I eventually hooked two fish on one my old methods, but I can see what he was saying.

That's really useful, thanks. I'm happy with lots of different advice. From what I know of the water, I can reject or keep as I see fit, it's just having a place to start that would be helpful. Bread works brilliantly for the carp in the summer, but I think would probably be ignore in the colder months and fished on the bottom.

 

[john step]

Its getting cold. The carp and certainly tench will be less active. Use a float. Try a deep close in swim if there is one. Use bread. Experiment with size but those Drennan Flake Punches are ideal.
I used to believe hemp and tares/wheat were only for summer roach but after watching an old boy last winter doing very well for roach last winter I must give it a try.
He was feeding a little amount of hemp and using a grain of hemp on the hook and put my bag of fish to shame.
Another idea is to trawl this forum for the articles by Dave Coster who has caught roach of goodly sizes in winter in one or two articles.

 

[chrisjpainter]

Thanks @john step it sounds like bread's the way to go. and perhaps I'll have to turn to the float. My only float rod is a power float, that's more designed for fishing for the bigger tench and carp, and it's not an expensive rod either, so it might lack the finesse needed for delicate work for roach, but I'll see what I can make of it! It still casts reasonably light floats, so that's a start

 

[peterjg]

The above advice is spot-on. It's so difficult to avoid other species when trying to target big roach. Expect the fishing to be slow, try not to be tempted to use groundbait and as already said feed slightly away from where you are fishing or you will end up with a swim full of small fish or carp or crayfish. Light and/or water clarity is absolutely vital for consistent successful roach fishing so fish in dull light or coloured water. Choice of venue is so important, if It's a lightly fished natural venue then use bread or worms, if it's well fished then use bread or pellets. My guess is that the use of pellets will become even more popular in future years. Roach really are the most interesting of fish.

 

[john step]

Thanks @john step it sounds like bread's the way to go. and perhaps I'll have to turn to the float. My only float rod is a power float, that's more designed for fishing for the bigger tench and carp, and it's not an expensive rod either, so it might lack the finesse needed for delicate work for roach, but I'll see what I can make of it! It still casts reasonably light floats, so that's a start

One thing I forgot to mention is that the last hour of light in winter is normally the best for winter roach. In fact one place I fish unless its a particularly dull day I dont get a bite until after 2pm when the light starts to fade noticeably.
That may seem a bit strange for an angler in Dorset but there is definitely a noticeable difference in dusk times this far north. (Lincs. Scottish anglers must never see daylight!!)

 

[The bad one]

Caster and hemp fish from lunchtime until dark on the float always sorts them out.

 

[Alan Whitty]

Dusk is THE time for big roach,a lake I used to fish you quite often didn't get a bite until one hour before dark,it was possible to get 25 or more on that hour,odd ones over the magical two pounds,feeding is often a controlling factor in size of roach,however sometimes a 10-12mm boilie is the only way round it...