The Angling Trust? Are you In or Out?

J

John Bailey

Guest
Over the years I have found that there are some columns that write themselves, and others that are a struggle from beginning to end. Like this one. In some ways, I would be better simply leaving the whole subject of the Trust alone perhaps, and I have considered that. It would be easier but cowardly, and we are at a crossroads in angling where we have to decide where we stand on every issue, contentious or not. So whilst I run the risk of annoying folks, I know I might well bore them too because, after all, what is there about the Trust that has not already been said? Oh yes, then there’s money, and none of us likes to part with that, or even be made to feel guilty if we don’t. Spring is a difficult time to go round with the hat, when the EA licence fee and any number of club and syndicate memberships are due, and I realise that as well.


Martin Salter with a nice chub

Everyone knows membership of the Angling Trust, and its forerunners the Anglers Conservation Association and the Anglers Cooperative Association in the earliest days, has been a vexed issue. Richard Walker regularly harangued us in the Fifties and Sixties to join the ACA, and even Saint **** couldn’t drive numbers above twelve thousand or so. Why? Are anglers suspicious of any organisation, or simply tight? How come the RSPB boasts over one million supporters, and the various Wildlife Trusts getting on for similar numbers? Even Butterfly Conservation has forty thousand members paying for 36 butterfly-friendly reserves, and over 70 habitat/conservation projects ongoing. Anglers, though? It’s like herding cats.

Not that, in any way, I am claiming the high moral ground. One of my Christmas presents in the Sixties was ACA membership, but since being an earnest teenager I’ve been a periodic backslider. I served an ill-fated period as Vice President of the old ACA, and in the early days of the Trust I sometimes remained to be convinced of its expanded role. Now, after a year of head scratching, I’m pretty sure I have come out onside, but how can I convince the doubters amongst you? What can I tell you sceptics that you don’t already know? Perhaps nothing, but that doesn’t mean I won’t spend five hundred words trying.


Jamie Cook with a grayling

None of you know that last Friday night was Pizza Night for new boss Jamie Cook and family. However, when the nosh was eaten, the dishwasher was stacked, and the kids were put to bed, Jamie still spent half an hour emailing me the reasons the Trust should be a part of all our lives. When you have looked at the endless trail of emails, and considered the volume of calls and meetings to and with the present Government, you have to conclude that without the Trust we would have spent most of the last twelve months not doing what we love most. Last spring, the Trust worked well to get us back on the water, but between January 6th and March 29th 2021, they have excelled themselves. Despite putting together huge petitions, golfers had to put away their clubs and tennis players their rackets. Like me, Martin Bowler has had his criticisms over the years, but even he famously said “if you plan to cast a line during lockdown, you have a duty to join the Angling Trust”. (Happily, a couple of thousand of us heeded his call.) Two facts are inescapable. In this day and age, angling has to have a representative voice, however much we might want simply to be “a-quiet and go an-angling”, as someone once said. Second, the Trust has amply proved that its voice is loud, clear and successfully persuasive.


The joint campaign to protect bass stocks

Nor can I doubt any longer the Trust’s environmental credentials. Its legal arm, Fish Legal, is still fighting polluters with sharp and bared teeth. The Trust is central to endless marine issues, along with initiatives like Anglers Against Pollution, Anglers Against Litter and the formation of an All-Party Parliamentary Group For Chalk Streams. The Trust truly does seem to be fighting, or at least constantly questioning the things that are killing us like abstraction, predation and pollution, and even the present often ill-considered craze for re-wilding. Moreover, Jamie and team are showing guts. They take on the EA, Defra, the Scottish government, and whoever looks to be trampling on angling. Oh, and yes, they generally win as well.

Many of us of a certain age are inherently suspicious of all organisations and the leakage of monies, but I am now as convinced as a surly git can be that the Trust is only using money for specific, agreed purposes and outcomes. I might not be convinced about sponsorship of Team England, but that is just me, and I am impressed that even the Trust’s HR manager is part-time. Compared with some CEOs supposedly looking after the environment, Jamie Cook acts like Scrooge.

Look. There’s little point me going on about the work the Trust does, because you can all go on its website and get the detail there. The whole crux of all this is whether we need the Trust, and whether we believe in its integrity and ability to deliver. It has taken me time, but I have decided unequivocally that the Trust ticks both boxes and has earned the support of all of us. I believe Jamie himself thinks there is room for improvement and that this is a work in progress. What I am pretty damn sure of is that we should get off our tight arses and help him get there.

The post The Angling Trust? Are you In or Out? first appeared on FishingMagic Magazine.

Continue reading...
 

Peter Jacobs

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
31,527
Reaction score
13,560
Location
In God's County: Wiltshire
John, as a relative new comer to FM you my not be aware of the discussions and yes, disagreements that this topic has reared since even before the Trust was conceived.

The originators posted here a lot to try to gauge the members views of this newly proposed organisation. In fact in the early days those leading lights were not at all too well disposed to having individual members, preferring to only have Club memberships as it was considered those were "easier to control" than individuals . . . . .

A great many of us here on FM were members of the old ACA and we mourned its loss and incorporation into the Trust and even worse to name it "Fish Legal" . . . . whoever dreamt that up? Geeze Louise . . . .

Many of us also joined the Trust for the first few years and this site even hosted Rod Sturdy's (all too regular) column; which was criticised greatly for never replying to members questions, and was pilloried for being seen as simply preaching to this membership on a regular basis.

I can only speak from my personal opinion and that is I just don't see the Trust dealing with the major issues (canoe access) abstraction, predation and pollution, (other than Fish Legal work on pollution) so I dropped my membership preferring instead to make a regular contribution to the Fish Legal side of things.

A couple of questions however, do we really want to "take on" DEFRA and the EA? Would it not be more successful to try to work with them instead of against them?

At only £29 per annum it could be considered an investment rather than a cost, and it is not a King's ransom, but most ex-members simply didn't see what they considered to be . . . value for money . . . now taking on and winning the canoe access battle would change that mightily . . . . .


Disclaimer: the views expressed above are my own and not those of this site.
 
Last edited:

rayner

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
2,053
Location
South Yorkshire.
I have to say your post regarding the Angling Trust fell on deaf ears where I am concerned. I read down to the section where the grayling is pictured then fell sound asleep. The club you speak of is not what I need. All I see is a gang of folk who earn a decent living with anglers forced to join to enter Fisho.
They con people into volunteering to bailiff for them, I'm sure they have volunteers elsewhere too. If they want bailiffs they should pay their worth.
I can't see one thing they do for me, if they want my cash they need to do that.
Am I tight-fisted, yes I am. there is a big but, I will pay for things I need not for what I don't.
You may say they're the voice of angling well I never hear them.
 

John Aston

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
2,540
Of course I am a member, as I was of the ACA. For years I have endured the litany of reasons anglers don't want to belong to Trust - too match oriented, too specimen oriented, the outrageous fact that they pay their staff , the fact that it costs 10p a day and a host of similarly tiresome reasons .

The only thing I never , ever hear is Plan B . Any ideas, suggestions ? Anybody ? Or will it be the usual deafening silence ?

Anglers are famed for their head in the sand apathy , and I sometimes wonder if many ever read a newspaper . Any sport which involves wild life , such as ours does , is coming under ever closer scrutiny and criticism . People like BASC fight hard for their sport - and with 150, 000 members they have the resources to do so . It represents 25 % of the total number of shotgun certificate holders. We have a million(-ish) anglers but a pathetic 15,000 or so belong to the Trust . It is embarrassing to practice a sport whose practitioners are so deeply mired in apathy that they can't be arsed to do a damn thing about its future.

Odd, isn't it , how nobody ever said a word against the ACA and its wonderful work and yet it still had the same pitiful level of support.

Our sport needs smart , articulate representatives to be its voice . They make a difference -just look at the immense influence a Chris Packham has for example . And outside the Trust , who does angling have ? Cue a deafening silence .
 

john step

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
3,996
Location
There
I have been a member since the old ACA days. Its not a lot of money. I believe we wouldnt have been fishing since May last year without the efforts of the Trust. They seem to be the only fishing organisation taken seriously by the Government Departments.
 

Keith M

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
Messages
6,498
Reaction score
6,064
Location
Hertfordshire
I used to be a loyal member of the ACA before it was put under the Angling Trust banner and became fish legal; and I agree that I should really have joined the Angling Trust as an individual member; but as I saw it, the Angling Trust just seemed to spend too much of its money and efforts in the match fishing side of our sport and I don’t even fish commercials let alone fish more than a couple of club matches per year nowadays so why should I have wanted my AT subs to be used to pay for this side of our sport? The two clubs that I currently belong to both pay for Angling Trust membership already and I’m fine with that.

If it was possible to add around £5 or £6 to the cost of a rod licence to support the Angling Trust then there would be a lot more cash going into the Angling Trust (because all anglers would be contributing instead of just a few) however whether this would be actually possible I don’t know.

I think I might be joining the Angling Trust this year, but if I still think that my money is largely being spent on Team England and other match orientated things, that I have no interest in; rather than on more important things to the average Angler; then don’t blame me if I’m not going to be an individual member for that long.

Keith
 
Last edited:

John Aston

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
2,540
Do join it, please. The licence idea is a non runner, despite it often being mentioned in the press. The EA is a government department and they are not able to levy charges for private third party organisations. And what's the big obstacle in joining on line- it takes just minutes .

Cards on table - I do some voluntary work for the Trust (as well as the Wild Trout Trust ) and if we had more people with the drive and enthusiasm of Trust staff who I know we'd be in a better place .

I mentioned BASC above - on Thursday I had a letter published in The Times about the fact that the shooting industry is still using lead shot, but is now going through the motions of evaluating stopping its use . I pointed out that despite anglers using a tiny fraction of the amount , we were banned from using lead in 1987. Now I think the ban was a good idea, but isn't it testament to the power of a powerful representative body like BASC that they have lobbied against a ban for thirty years after we were stopped ?

We need to wake up quick .
 

no-one in particular

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
7,783
Reaction score
3,780
Location
australia
I never joined for reasons historically-
1-they have their AGM's in swanky golf clubs, especially in the early days for an organization that was supposed to lack funds, I find that an insult and I am not subsidizing someone's golf.
2-They don't give their volunteers anything, nothing at all, not even a Christmas tip as far as I know, and it is exploitation in my book given the training they have to have and such a specialized difficult job.
3-They take a grant off the EA which doesn't make them entirely impartial.
4-They take grants off other environmental organizations and it goes to their fishing clubs to put toilets up or stock their ponds.
5-They name and shame license dodgers which is nothing to do with them and is just vindictiveness and nasty and should be illegal. They have done the crime and paid for it, why should a private organization be allowed to punish them further and in such a vindictive way.
6-They take no part in fishing forums such as this one, they take the money but wont engage in any debate about themselves.
7-Thier is no democracy in the membership as far as i know.
8-They don't make it easy to follow their accounts, not enough openness for me personally.
9-I didn't agree with their lobbying of the Government for fishing during the pandemic, crass and inappropriate given what was/is going on.
10-I don't agree with Fish Legal, if someone has faced the courts of the land and been punished for a crime, then they shouldn't be double whammed as they described it. In fact I think I would rather fish legal were not involved, a purely fishing organization for anglers would be less complicated but I accept they do some good work but only for clubs.
11- Their fee should be a flat rate of £5, especially in the beginning, they are a bit obsessed with money, just get people to join, tried to run before they could walk.

There is more but no point in laboring it and on a personal note, I am not a club angler or a match angler, that alone wouldn't stop me joining but a bit more funding and direction to all anglers would look better to me. I accept they do some very good work but historically I have been put off by all the above. They do some good work as well, I am not saying they don't and for sea anglers and sea conservation and I believe their heart is in the right place and they may have improved but I have been put off by too many things in the past but I might change my mind sometime. I am not a natural for joining organizations and to be honest I am not that interested in all the grand schemes and fighting just about everyone else that breathes for angling rights, it doesn't really impress me or get my excitement up, in fact sometimes I don't want to be associated at all with any of it just by dint of being a pleasure angler; a good all round fishing organization for all anglers, somewhere to go to get all the latest news and benefits for all anglers and about a £5 or £10 a year to join, just basic, nothing fancy, something really nice and great I could grow to love. Chuck in a few schemes like a days fishing somewhere for free and a badge and a car sticker and I would probably join and maybe a lot of other anglers would but that's just a guess; I wouldn't like to assume all anglers are like me but that would be my plan B.
 
Last edited:

John Aston

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
2,540
Some of your points don't really merit a response but let me tease one out with you . You say it is somehow unfair that a polluter can be punished both in the criminal court for the crime he has committed and by the payment of civil court damages for the loss of a fishery . A fine doesn't go to the victim, but to the state. Why on earth shouldn't the victim be able to sue for his loss ?

On this logic , if you are injured and your car damaged by a dangerous driver , you are presumably happy that the driver is fined but you don't get a penny for your own loss ?
 

steve2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
4,805
Reaction score
1,964
Location
Worcestershire
Will I join/rejoin NO.
I was totally against fishing during a pandemic and told them so. No emails I have sent to them over the years have ever been answered.
All my clubs are members
 

no-one in particular

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
7,783
Reaction score
3,780
Location
australia
Some of your points don't really merit a response but let me tease one out with you . You say it is somehow unfair that a polluter can be punished both in the criminal court for the crime he has committed and by the payment of civil court damages for the loss of a fishery . A fine doesn't go to the victim, but to the state. Why on earth shouldn't the victim be able to sue for his loss ?

On this logic , if you are injured and your car damaged by a dangerous driver , you are presumably happy that the driver is fined but you don't get a penny for your own loss ?
I am no expert on the law and I am sure in some cases there is merit for pursuing a separate claim for damages but it should really be dealt with by the courts at the first instance, it was the phrase "double whammy" that was often used that put me off, it signified to me not a fair upholding of the law and a claim for fair damages but a revenge or extra punishment of some sort and that is not what the AT or fish legal should be for or doing. Your "don't really merit a response" is deaf ears and burying in the sand which has been the normal response of the Angling trust to any criticism, they don't want to know, you don't want to know, if they are so perfect why do they struggle to get members as you have pointed out. You complained about the usual complaints and the silence and no plan B yet I think I have given you all of those but you just wont accept any criticsm, doesn't merit response does it.
 
Last edited:

John Aston

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
2,540
It is dealt with by the courts . That is the body which orders that damages be paid in the first place . Why on earth shouldn't you have 'revenge' for having your water poisoned ? A fine doesn't help the victim.
 

chevin4

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
939
Reaction score
1,485
Location
Herts
Generally I feel that the Anglers Trust are doing a good job and will continue to support them.
 

no-one in particular

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
7,783
Reaction score
3,780
Location
australia
It is dealt with by the courts . That is the body which orders that damages be paid in the first place . Why on earth shouldn't you have 'revenge' for having your water poisoned ? A fine doesn't help the victim.
I don't think your really understanding it, you don't seek revenge you seek fair damages and costs or compensation. I don't want to get into a minutiae argument about one point of law process or one of my points, I gave you plenty to think about, you said you don't want to know which is fine, that is your prerogative but I think I will leave it at that thanks.
 
Last edited:

Keith M

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
Messages
6,498
Reaction score
6,064
Location
Hertfordshire
If the Angling Trust just stopped funding match orientated things, and just concentrated on things like lobbying against over abstraction and for river and Stillwater environment improvements, and on promoting to non anglers the benefits that Angling provides to the environment and it’s wildlife, and lobbying the government and the EA and the water authorities when they are doing something that is detrimental to our watery environment etc.(water companies do more damage than good) and representiing our side of the coin when ever it’s needed like during this covid when they argued for us to be able to fish plus a host of other similar things, and then had the Fish legal side of the trust carrying on with their bringing polluters to justice and getting recommence through the courts for Angling clubs etc. Then I and many like me would be more likely to join, of that I’m sure.

Keith
 
Last edited:

John Aston

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
2,540
If , if and if . Let me ask a question - do you think angling needs a national voice? If the answer is yes ,who do you think it should be ? Are you a member of that body - or does it even exist ? If it doesn't , might it not be an idea to join the Trust ? And if you think things should be done differently , stick your head above the parapet, get involved yourself . Nothing personal Keith, but hundreds of thousands of anglers do two parts of bugger all for their sport and yet feel perfectly comfortable in taking swipes at the one body which is actually trying to do something for the sport.

As I said above, there is no sign of a plan B is there ?
 

Peter Jacobs

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
31,527
Reaction score
13,560
Location
In God's County: Wiltshire
I think everyone used to applaud the ACA for everything they did over many years.

Fish Legal have taken over that responsibility.
If, like me, you don’t want to join the Trust then you can also make a private donation to just the Fish Legal part of the organisation.

Most of my fishing these days is for trout and greying. My club and syndicate are members of the Trust and individually I am a member of the Salmon and Trout Association and the Countryside Alliance.
 

liphook

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
124
Reaction score
56
I'm in it as I know from experience you can only have a say in anything if you're invested in to it. No its not perfect but it's way better than apathy of doing nothing! Give a damn not a gripe I say.
 

rayner

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
4,862
Reaction score
2,053
Location
South Yorkshire.
It seems you have put yourself up as a champion of the trust grayson. Apart from dissing markg's claims you've said nothing.
When all is said and done the angling trust is only a club, it has a decent following. Why that is not enough for you I don't know. Your club should not have to browbeat anglers to join, if it was needed by all then all would join.
PS no need to reply because I've already heard it all and you will get no response from me. I'm out.
 
Top