The Bread Roll Rig

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Clive Evans

Guest
Hi to all.
I've just got back from Hols (non-fishing)and spent an amazed hour reading the thread. Such controversy!
I've decided on a separate post as I do not wish to reply to messrs Bundock and Davies, whose attitudes have been well attended to in the forum. Enough said.
I do fully appreciate their concerns for safe fishing and would like to state categorically that I am of a like mind.
If at any time over the 10 years I have used this rig, I had cause to doubt it, I would not have sent it to the Rigs Page or recommended its use.
Like Bob Watson,I was shown this at Makin's Wolvey and have used it with and without a hookbait ever since, both safely and prolifically.
I think a little common sense and thought is required here. The Point on the Hook is the bit that counts and in most presentations the point is left clear of the bait. Hair-rigs, mixers on bait-bands, lures, flies, pike-trebles, and others, all have the hook fully exposed. When was the last time you buried a hook in a maggot?
Fish Bite, they dont rub up to or make love to the bait, which is why foul-hooking is a relatively rare occurrence.
With the bread-roll only the order is changed. Instead of the hook being last into the mouth, it is (usually) the first and is NEVER found deep in the throat. And, because the fish doesn't contact the hook until it bites that end of the bread, it doesn't foul-hook either!I have occasionally hooked fish in the outside of the top or bottom lip, but never anywhere else. It is impossible to tether a fish because the bread softens and the line just pulls through it.As for a loose hook on ''three inches of line'', obviously Mr Bundock did not bother to read where I stated 1/2 in. to 1 in. of line which, when the bread swells, leaves the hook hanging within the perimeter of that end, a danger only to the fish that sucks or bites there. When I first used this method I did sometimes try more line but found the only consequence was No Bites, not foul-hooking! Presumably, the fish could see line and hook and shied away.
For all these reasons, and the use of barbless hooks only, I consider that this method is as fish-friendly and safe as any other method I have used, and time and many fish caught have proved this to be so.
Just a little more on presentation. Two reasons for wrapping the bread well. One, making it sturdy enough to cast a distance, and Two, sturdy enough to withstand the attention of small fish. If I want to catch roach, rudd, orfe, chub, sometimes even tench and bream,That's when I put a small bait on the hook as well! And I still catch Mr Carp if he comes along too.
For the sake of the ducks I now use a very visible floating line,which lifts easily off the water.This is usally sufficient to scare them off the bread, and ,as a bonus,skims the bread over the water without spinning up the line, should I wish to move it or bring it back to cast again.

Well, for better or worse, thats my side of the argument.If anyone has any other concerns or queries about this 'rig', ask politely and I'll be happy to answer.
This isn't the ''Method from Hell'', and I'm just an angler looking to enjoy my hobby.
Don't take my word for it, try it yourself as many others have done, and if you don't like it then don't use it. I will, until I start to cause harm, and then I wont.
Tight lines.
Clive.
 
S

Steve Bundock

Guest
Mr. Evans,
I cannot speak for Robin, so will address it on my own behalf.
I am very sorry that you feel the need to bring up how my concerns were first brought to the forums attention, I have already expressed my apologies for doing so and in so doing if I have caused yourself any grievance I will again express my apologies, it wasn't my intention to. How many more times do the people on this forum want me to do that, I wonder? I am not proud of how I did it and have learnt my lesson in doing so.

Maybe I should supply a brief history of myself, and perhaps you will see I am no beginner to fishing, although I believe everybody is still learning no matter what there ability.
Am now approaching my 35th birthday, started fishing at 11, after fishing my local rivers and lakes for various species, specialized on carp fishing at the age of 14 after falling in love with them on a trip with a friend to a syndicate water catching small carp. Have fished waters of varying difficulty, with numerous results. Have witnessed, proudly, 2 friends catching forties, after guiding them through there first steps in carp fishing.
Regarding the rig in question, I was viewing it from a beginners point of view.
In the wrong hands, this could be dangerous. If a fish approaches the bait from any other angle, other than head-on to the hook, an impatient beginner may be induced to strike and POSSIBLY hook the fish anywhere apart from the mouth.
Yes I did read the part about only exposing 1/2 to 1 inch, but the photo did not show this, again to an impatient beginner, they may have just looked at the photos and not read the text, tied it up wrong and POSSIBLY end up damaging fish.
When you say fish bite the bait, you have never witnessed a carp on a pressured water 'mouthing' very gingerly the top half of a boilie, leaving the hook outside of the mouth and very gently moving backwards to feel for any form of resistance. You also say they do not 'rub up' to the bait, I have witnessed this on a few occasions where, again wary carp will patrol around a bait to feel for line, presumably, (surface fishing) and also 'rub' themselves against the bait before deciding whether or not to take it. I don't mean physically moving backwards and forwards against the bait, but approach the bait and veer off slightly, so that the bait will fall against their body as they slowly move forward.
With regard the tethering issue, lets just say we should agree to disagree, any form of loop has a POSSIBLE chance of tethering in my opinion, all it takes is for a branch or something similar, to catch at the wrong point and you are left with a potentially bad situation.
Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that the rig will catch, I just wanted to air my concerns on a couple of items about it with the hope that we could all rectify or iron out the rough spots if possible.
I went about it the wrong way, as mentioned before, was not proud of how I did this, held my hands up and apologised to those concerned.
Forums were formed for people to chat to other people, gain knowledge and voice there opinions.
This after all is only my opinion, the fact that it has raised doubts, I feel, is a good thing. I hope it will get people more interested in the mechanics of rigs, and try to work together to improve upon them. I for one will not be using the rig as it is published on this site, with improvement I will.

Once again if I have offended or upset you in any way, I deeply apologise.
 

GrahamM

Managing Editor
The Bread Roll Rig has been reinstated to the site whilst we discuss its pros and cons:

<a href=http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article.asp?SP=&v=1&UAN=1902>'The Bread Roll Rig</A>.

See also <a href=http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummessages.asp?URN=1&UTN=4212&SP=&V=1>this thread</A>.
 

GrahamM

Managing Editor
But no more comments about Steve Bundock's post please. He has sincerely apologised several times and the important thing now is to contructively discuss the rig.
 
R

RobD

Guest
Graham.... I actually thought we'd got passed this point and had moved on to improving the rig shown but I guess not.
 
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Tony Jolley

Guest
In my original post I mentioned about the half hitch,
I have to say now that I had the knot confused with other knots,
how ever I still feel as Mr Bundock has highlighted, there can be a danger when loops of line are involved, also the danger of some anglers just using "any old knot" to secure the bread, thats the reasons behind my suggestion of using a lenght of fine line instead,
 
J

John Pleasance

Guest
Tony, it would be quite difficult to perform anything other than a loop,you have to remember the rod is on one end of the line and a rolled slice of bread on the other.

The loop is not fixed in any way and is only held in place by the bread.Once you actually use the rig you will find the loop just pulls out once a fish is on.

What I found surprising when I used it was that I caught relatively small fish for that particular lake.Normally these smaller fish are quite hard to catch on floaters in open water, they really do sip them in very gently compared to their bigger brothers and sisters.

I also found that the bread rolled a little easier by taking off two opposing edges.The edges with the crusts remaining were laid along the length of the line.
 
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John Cady

Guest
The way i fish the Bread roll/Cigar seems far simpler.
Take one fresh slice of bread,remove the crust.
Lay your line along one side,12mm in from the edge,with the hook hanging just over the end of the slice.
Fold the slice over the line and pres lightly using the thumb.
Next roll the slice into a cigar ,and pinch ends together .
Apply pressure lightlt other wise bread will sink.
The rig works well with the bare hook just outside the slice and certainly no more than 25mm.
The weight of the slice makes for easy long casting with no controller.
The weight also creates the bolt effect requiring no strike just wind in .
I have never had any problems with this rig and would stop using it if i thorought otherwise.
Hope this helps.
 
K

Keith Finn

Guest
Been wondering what all the kerfuffle is about the "Bread Roll rig" having not seen the write up or the diagram.
Now having seen it, "What is the problem with it"?.
I have been using this rig for floating bread for years, albeit without so many wraps of line around the slice of bread, and have never once foul hooked a fish in the eye body or wherever!.
People sniggered at me when I first used it saying, " A whole slice of thick sliced War****ons on a size 2, you won't get a take on that". The results spoke for themselves.
If the "Whinge about anything before they have used it brigade" wish to try a variation on the rig to keep themselves happy, just pull the hook so that the shank is just inside the bread and maybe they would care to do that with all their other off the hook rigs!.
Keith

Ann, Pass me my steel helmet please, there a lot of flak flying round!!!. :D
 
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Rodney Wrestt

Guest
I'm not trying to be argumentative here but what's the difference between this rig and a hair rig, apart from the bait being on the mainline and not the hair it's still a bare hook (although some people don't use this rig without some bait on the hook as well). I'm sure people were sceptical when the hair rig was first revealed and if the forum was running then this thread would probably be following the same course as it is now.
 
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Rodney Wrestt

Guest
Keith,
have you got a spare helet there, I think I've got some incoming......
 

Stuart Dennis

New member
Rodney Wrote: what's the difference between this rig and a hair rig!

Come on Rodney, don't be thick here mate, its obvious. Firstly its more dificult to write 'FOX' on the slice of bread, secondly, it means you've got to work for your fish, which quite frankly, just aint on! (by that i mean actually hold the rod in your hands - Whats that all about?), thirdly and probably more importantly, it means bites will come thick and fast and as you know us carp anglers prefer to sit around for days on ends just wondering!!
 
R

Rodney Wrestt

Guest
Ahhh all cleared up now cheers Stuart. ;o}~

Robin,
You've sent your keyboard to sleep mate.
 
T

Tony Jolley

Guest
The way i fish the Bread roll/Cigar seems far simpler.
Take one fresh slice of bread,remove the crust.
Lay your line along one side,12mm in from the edge,with the hook hanging just over the end of the slice.
Fold the slice over the line and pres lightly using the thumb.
Next roll the slice into a cigar ,and pinch ends together .
Apply pressure lightlt other wise bread will sink.
The rig works well with the bare hook just outside the slice and certainly no more than 25mm.
The weight of the slice makes for easy long casting with no controller.
The weight also creates the bolt effect requiring no strike just wind in .
I have never had any problems with this rig and would stop using it if i thorought otherwise.
Hope this helps.



That sounds much simpler and no need for loops and the like,
 
T

Tony Jolley

Guest
Sorry to you John Cady, I missed your name as I was quoting your post.
 
C

Clive Evans

Guest
Just a few words to clear up some of the points raised.
Mr Bundock, Steve, the name's Clive, and no apology necessary. Absolutely no offence taken, I share your concerns. One or two points: It really is impossible to tether a fish, the line is only held in shape by the bread. When this softens, within a few moments, there is nothing to stop the line straightening.
All methods of fishing are potentially dangerous in the hands of a novice. This can only be avoided by good teaching practise.
Nearly every fish caught this way has first spent some time worrying the bread, until finally mouthing the hook end. In 10 years I have never hooked a fish other than in the lip or scissor. Hence my continued usage.
John Cady, both methods are simple to tie, quickly, and work equally well. If you have ever watched a carp suck lumps out of a slice of bread, you will know why I tie it up securely. As a bonus I assure you I can cast it at least twice as far as yours.
Stuart, darling. No striking necessary, its self-hooking. So no holding the rod. You do have to reel in though, but take your time and dont tax yourself, precious.
Robin Davies, I hope you dont do the unforgiveable and fall asleep when your lines in the water. you seem easily bored.

Keep 'em coming, boys and girls. Its good to know people care.

Clive.
 
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Wendy Perry

Guest
What is the difference with this rig and using chum mixer on a bait band ???? i don't see any difference .
 
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John Pleasance

Guest
I've just had a second short session using this method and would like to add to my previous comments,for a start the fish were bigger this evening,three fish for nearly 30 lb.(plus one rudd,also lip hooked)

I can see a good reason for wrapping the bread in that the lake that I have used it on is teeming with rudd,literally thousands of them,anything soft like bread without the line wrap will disappear in a very short space of time(I will try it without however).

I did find that by the time I was halfway through a loaf the line was getting tatty where it had been looped around itself and taken the weight of the bread when casting.It is a simple matter though to check that and re-tie the hook,but I may think about a short length of pole silicone on that part of the line in future.

One other big difference to my normal floater fishing was how much more relaxing it is just waiting for the reel to start churning instead of straining my eyes in the failing light wondering if the bait has actually gone in this time.

So thanks Clive,I had seen something like this used a long time ago but never really bothered to find out exactly what was going on.
 
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