The next Premier Barbel River

[Ron Clay]

Certain contacts of mine tell me that when the current brood of big barbel in the Ouse dies from old age, it will be many years before there will be any barbel around to challenge the record. I get the feeling that the River Trent will shortly spring some mighty surprises and could be the next premier barbel river. What do you think. Which river has a chance, in the future of producing a barbel as big as the Ouse monsters?

 

[Philip Inzani]

Wye...I would love to see this river take the record.

Also the Severn and Thames. Kennet could spring a surprise if Bolies keep going in some streaches.
I would never discount the Avon or Stour from springing back into the limelight in the future plus a number of smaller venues that could produce massive fish if thay are subjected to massive ongoing baiting.

 

[Paul Williams]

I would love it to be the Wye to but i don't think it will happen, Imho if and when the record goes again,(and not counting the Ouse) i think it will happen on a smallish river that happens to hold a "strain" of barbel that are capable of growing large, i honestly believe that on different waters we can get these differences in the same species, this coupled with the right envoiroment to trigger that strains growing capabilities is part of the eqaution in my opinion, the anglers who then clammer for these already larger than average fish are then the final link, the extra food availability pushes the fishes wieght beyond what it would have been had they gone unnoticed.
Thats my opinion and although i think the Wye, Severn, and particulary the Trent may still throw up a surprise, for a river to consistantly turn up huge fish we need the Ouse situation all over again..........please god let me find it!!!!!

 

[Philip Inzani]

Paul, I think you are spot on that the anglers make up the final missing link.
If your prayer comes true please feel free to call me anytime!!!!!!!

Philip.
PS....Any chance of a guest ticket on the Lugg?!?

 

[Paul Williams]

Anytime Philip !! one of my very favourite rivers! let me know when, but bear in mind no guest tickets issued on a Sunday. We'll invite Rik and just follow him to the Barbel !!!!

 

[Keith Banks]

Ron.
Dont send the circus up here, its great at the moment, don't see a angler from one week to the next.Went over the river today looked at some prime barbel pegs, havn't been fished in ages. Anyway the Trent will be just to hard for those who don't know it, and are not prepared to put the time and effort in.
a better prospect for a record in my opinion will be a perch,some good ones being caught but extreemly hard to find and then catch.

Keith

 

[Dave Johnson]

In my mind a sad point worth reflecting on, bearing in mind Pauls comments on the final link is the amount of stillwaters that are now stocked with barbel and subjected to protien baits etc on a daily basis.
How would we all feel if the Angling press were to break a story of a 20lb+ barbel from a commercial fishery?

 

[Mike Fidler]

I don't think anyone would seriously try to claim a still water fish.

What about the Wensum, do you remember Steve Pope's fish of 16lb something a couple of years ago?

 

[Neil Wayte]

Don't discount the Medway in a couple of years either

 

[STEVE POPE]

Hi Mike,

The Wensum fish was caught by Steve Keer, not me, I'm still waiting for one that size! Like the great majority of us.
I would dearly love to catch a sixteen from the Severn, having had some pretty big fish from there and also the privilege of seeing Howard's record sixteen plusser that is my dream. However I'm off on the Ouse until the end of the season so you never know, but even if I get lucky it won't feel the same as if it were the Severn.
Going back to the previous postings imo the anglers are the first link.The Ouse, Wensum and Medway all had one thing in common, a low head of barbel.Once the bait goes in thats it, a barbel's requirement to sustain its very existence is extremely low, so when you consider the amount of extra it finds served up on its table and the little amount of energy required to help itself to this feast it's not surprising we are seeing these heavyweights.
With our knowledge and experience over the years it looks like barbel will get to about 16 - 17lbs in a natural environment. By natural I mean reasonable stocks, average angling pressure, average amounts of food and a clean healthy environment.
Barbel are not getting any longer, skeletal growth has not changed,they are putting it all on around the girth, some would say they are just getting fat!
Tight lines,
Steve.

 

[Paul Williams]

Can't agree with you that anglers are the first link Steve, as you know the Ouse was turning up big Barbel to one or two pioneers years ago, they (the fish) live in the surroundings that equate to them already growing big, i also believe that there are different "strains" or if you like families of fish, if the genes of these fish work out right that is another possibillity for big (or small!!) fish. For proof of this i have a couple of small bred terriers, they were bred that way by using small ancestors......but they wouldn't half get fat if i let them!! just like the Ouse barbel??.....i would be the final link to them being "fat".....mind you Steve if i catch a fat 15lb+ Barbel from the Severn this week i'll not complain.
Paul.

 

[Ron Clay]

No Keith, we don't want the circus up in our part of the world. The problem is if a really big barbel is taken from the Trent, say 15 lbs plus (A friend of mine has had a 14 pounder)what is going to stop the inner M25 mob? I caught a lovely 9 pounder the other day. What a pristine fish!

 

[Philip Inzani]

Ron I know the idea of a forum is to share info but I have got to say it, if you dont want the M25 mob (I lived there!) on your doorstep why are you saying that you know someone who has had a 14 plus...I dont think thats going to help!

..Just thought of another possible wild card river...Wrkshire Avon...anyone else noticed the number of doubles getting caught in matches.

 

[Paul Williams]

SSSSSShhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

 

[STEVE POPE]

Hi Paul,

To do this subject justice would take more than an article.
At one time I believed in the strain theory but biologically it doesn't stand up.
It's all to do with the spawning,numbers of eggs etc. etc. even under the controlled conditions at Calverton it just would not work.It isn't an exact science.
Low density of fish, good available food source, low energy output and targetting of the fish by specialist anglers equals big fish. It really is as simple as that.
If you are going to Kempsey we can talk for hours and with Fred there as well I'm sure you will be convinced.

All the best,

Steve.

 

[Jon Moores]

This came up on the list a while ago.

I would say that the big rivers (Severn, Wye etc) have always the potential for a one off natural freak, but the Ouse type phenomenon is I think something different. I think a ‘new Ouse’ would have to have a small stock, lowland source (warmer winter temperatures), relatively moderate or regulated speed (less energy used) and probably in the southern half of the UK (temperatures again). A Thames tributary maybe ?

 

[Paul Williams]

Steve, you are right we ain't gonna cover this all this one here but at the end of the day i think even your theory above would point to the angler being the final part of the equation.
As far as calverton is concerned i can't comment to much, but i will say that controlled conditions aren't always the right conditions, i used my dogs to put forward my view perhaps i should have used carp, they have certainly proved that fish can be "bred" or a new strain made. I am sure if man can do it then nature does too from time to time, but then again i suppose it would be conditions that would dictate if a strong fast and/or large growing strain developed, but surely once the strain is establised the strenghts are passed on?
Regards Paul.

 

[Ron Clay]

By the way Philip, that 14 pounder was taken by my friend Mick Lomas of Sheffield and was given full publicity in the Angling Press. The Trent, especially the tidal reaches has lots of room for anglers. You can walk for miles - even on a Sunday and not see an angler. And the barbel are everywhere now. The problem as I see it is that certain anglers, mainly inner M25 Time Bandits, may cause angling for barbel to get a bad name in this part of the world

 

[Philip Inzani]

Ron fair point, I dont see the press every week so I missed the 14 getting reported so perhaps mentioning it here does not make any difference...then again, I did not know and I wonder how many others it was "new" news for.

One thing I do have to take just a "little" bit of an issue with is when you say it will be mainly inner M25 timebandits that arrive. I do find that a bit harsh as I am sure that the anglers in other parts are not exactly saints. Possibly the situation is worse there but they also have the most pressured fishing to contend with as well....sorry I know I am probably on a sticky wicket but I feel I should stick up for my fellow M25'ers!

 

[Ron Clay]

OK Philip, you don't seem such a bag guy, if you wish to apply for a passport to this part of Engand you can use my name as a reference. You might have a problem with Barnsley and District however. I can't even get into that area!

Seriously the future potential for barbel and other river species in an area decribed by a 40 mile radius drawn from the centre of Rotherham is excellent. The Don, Rother, Dearne, Idle and of course Trent are all barbel rivers. The fishing in these waters just gets better and better. I do feel quite sorry for the Inner M25 mob these days, especially if they want a bit of river fishing close by