Trout on lures

[John Keane]

Fly fishing became de-gentrified in the 70’s when Chew, Blagdon, Grafham and Rutland became available to the common man with a fly rod, pioneered by the likes of **** Walker, Bob Church, **** Shrive and Tom Ivens. Then came the small stillwater fly boom, the “Commercials” of their day in the fly scene. The fly fishing market is worth billions worldwide and, in my opinion, outsells the lure market many times over, in this country at least. The US is very lure based and the market there is massive, but then so is fly.
Lure fishing is less skilful than fly just in the field of casting alone. Anyone can chuck a hunk of ironmongery using a fixed spool reel. Fly fishing requires a different skill set and is just as effective as lure fishing, if not more so when you consider fishing for trout and grayling in running water.

 

[Krang]

Fly fishing became de-gentrified in the 70’s when Chew, Blagdon, Grafham and Rutland became available to the common man with a fly rod, pioneered by the likes of **** Walker, Bob Church, **** Shrive and Tom Ivens. Then came the small stillwater fly boom, the “Commercials” of their day in the fly scene. The fly fishing market is worth billions worldwide and, in my opinion, outsells the lure market many times over, in this country at least. The US is very lure based and the market there is massive, but then so is fly.
Lure fishing is less skilful than fly just in the field of casting alone. Anyone can chuck a hunk of ironmongery using a fixed spool reel. Fly fishing requires a different skill set and is just as effective as lure fishing, if not more so when you consider fishing for trout and grayling in running water.

Well now Farmoor opening up to lures can be pioneered by Krang.

Everyone always seems to focus on spinners and "hunks of metal". There are lots of other lures. Rapalas for example. Rapala of course being the biggest fishing company in the world. Spinners are only good in some situations. For small streams with lots of overhanging foliage floating lures are far more effective as you can retrieve them effectively over shorter distances. Spinners are really great if you need to cast a long way because they're heavy for their size. There's no way you could cast a fly so far as a spinner. You can also quickly cover a lot of water with one and fish them at different depths. Its about choosing the right tool for any particular job. I don't see how you could possibly fly fish some of the small streams I fish, there just isn't space to wave the rod about. And what are you supposed to do when its windy? With my modest amount of tackle and good collection of lures I'm far more adaptable to different conditions. My ultralight set up is put together with these small stream venues in mind. Very short rod, light line, mostly floating micro lures that I can trot under foliage. Part of the skill in lure fishing is having the right set up with the right lure for the venue and conditions on the day. On half the days and at half the venues the fly fisherman would presumably just have to go home.

Also casting lures accurately take practice. You don't need to be able to do it because you can just play it safe by casting well away from trees etc but there's an advantage to getting as close to cover as possible without snagging and losing your lure.

 

[flightliner]

Krang. If anglers could exercise their choice and use any method to fish for trout it would be as I described in my first reply -- the trout would be decimated to the point of there not being any left, like the res' I described near to Sheffield way back.
Restocking would be prohibitive for the owners and subsequently prices would spiral with the end result of less anglers using the venue.
I'm sure there will be venues that will go down that route but I would think there existence could be short lived.

 

[Krang]

Krang. If anglers could exercise their choice and use any method to fish for trout it would be as I described in my first reply -- the trout would be decimated to the point of there not being any left, like the res' I described near to Sheffield way back.
Restocking would be prohibitive for the owners and subsequently prices would spiral with the end result of less anglers using the venue.
I'm sure there will be venues that will go down that route but I would think there existence could be short lived.

With venues that stock, the more paying customers they get, the more money they make, the more fish they can stock. Better for them, their suppliers and their customers. It makes no difference if people catch their two fish limit on lures or flys. Bewl water has any method and have done very well out of it.

With wild trout I don't buy this "too easy to catch" argument at all. I'd say they sit between chub and grayling in terms of difficulty.

 

[Krang]

No skill involved here at all.

 

[flightliner]

Not to my mind, so much more involved in deceiving a fish with the fly !

 

[Krang]

Not to my mind, so much more involved in deceiving a fish with the fly !

What do think of all the people sat on my local canal catching bream then? Or carp anglers who just catapult ground bait, cast and then lounge around all day. There's even less involved in that.

 

[markcw]

+

Any sort of casting takes practice, Try dropping a method feeder to the edge of an island 30 yards away without either casting onto the island, or into overhanging foliage,and not just once but more or less every cast. Same with a waggler, casting to same spot all the time.
I fished an any method trout water a few years ago, the main bait behind the counter was sweetcorn, which trout cant digest anyway. I used the shops own feed pellets, which I softened to put on the hook, I was fishing the pole, What you caught you bought, I released all mine at the edge of the water, along with a few other people fishing there., regardless of method used. If I had bought what I caught I would have needed a gold AMEX card, it was like fishing in a goldfish bowl, no skill required, This was in scotland, There is a similar one I think at Pickering North Yorkshire.
There is more skill required using a fly set up for trout than lures or bait.

 

[flightliner]

"What do think of all the people sat on my local canal catching bream then? Or carp anglers who just catapult ground bait, cast and then lounge around all day. There's even less involved in that." Quote by Krang--
No problem with me whatsoever Krang, I do plenty of it myself and enjoy it immensely as I do with other kinds of angling.
The debate however is about the perceived skill levels req'd between catching Trout by either lures or by an artificial fly.
If you haven't tried the fly I would suggest you do-- it's totally absorbing.

 

[markcw]

Looking at your posing history it appears that you have a propensity for "last-word-itus" so from my side I'll simply say that I will agree to disagree with you on this topic.

And now you know why he was banned from Maggotdrowners within a few hours of joining it.mg:

 

[Molehill]

I have fly fished for 60 years and was a qualified instructor, but I would not put either lure or fly fishing as more skillfull than the other, it all depends on situations and how they are approached. Nor does one always outfish the other, again circumstances.

I am using lures a lot more for trout now, mainly because the waters I fish are not suitable for enjoyable fly fishing, but also because I get more sport from my lure setup. 5ft6in lightweight rod, small fixed spool etc. and even small trout are sporting and fight well, more so than on a fly rod towing a fly line about.
Skill wise nothing in it really, any idiot and stand on the edge of a reservoir and cast a fly out and strip (the lure, many flies are lures) back with no more skill than doing the same with a spinning outfit. In small streams or overgrown rivers it is equally skillfull to cast either a fly or lure acurately.
Horses for courses, but the real winner is the angler that appreciates and enjoys both methods and has the choice .

 

[steve2]

The most difficult part of flyfishing for trout is learning how to cast once you master that it no more difficult than any other form of fishing. The rules for trout fishing are there to make easy to catch fish more difficult. Try fly fishing for coarse fish if you want to do some thing different.

 

[Krang]

That fish is from a small stream, not a trout fishery, because there are no trout fisheries round here that allow lures.

I find that fishing lures with such a short rod is a very active way of fishing. You can't usually just put the rod tip where you want to line up the retrieve and so have to move yourself, sometimes climbing onto tree trunks and branches and getting through thick undergrowth. Also casting presents a real challenge. Not just in terms of missing the horizontal line of the far bank but casting through vertical gaps between hanging branches. The short rod makes it much easier to miss overhead branches whilst casting and also makes moving around easier. Obviously you wouldn't have any of these challenges in a goldfish bowl type scenario.

I do wish there were more lure trout fisheries. Some strains of trout like the ferox trout can get huge. If people put half the effort they put into big carp into big trout we'd have awesome trout fishing. Hence I want to inspire the interest in lure fishing for trout to help create a demand for such places to open. Though I'm sure there is already demand, otherwise places like Bewl wouldn't rescue themselves financially by allowing any method. It would be so lucrative, a trout lake with a lure shop on site. I think once a lot of carp and "course" anglers battled some big trout they'd find it a very appealing branch of the sport. Trout really are wonderful fish.

 

[Krang]

The most difficult part of flyfishing for trout is learning how to cast once you master that it no more difficult than any other form of fishing. The rules for trout fishing are there to make easy to catch fish more difficult. Try fly fishing for coarse fish if you want to do some thing different.

I'm quite envious of the trout fishing in America. I've often seen YouTube videos where they explain that their local lake has just been stocked by the local authority so they're heading over there with their lures. Here we get stocked with roach and bream. Those could be trout! How on earth would it not be better if all those stocked "course" fish were trout instead??

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Having lived and worked in the States for a number of years I can assure you that "stocked" trout venues are few and far between.

The vast majority of lure fishing over there is aimed at Bass fishing. My (ex) wife's family were all heavily into bass fishing and I accompanied them a few times but never saw the attraction . . . .

In the huge retail outlets, like Outdoor World, you will see demonstrations by the resident professional bass angler. Within minutes of him (or her) demonstrating a particular lure the shelves will be stripped in record time.

In Canada too the fishing there is pretty much centred of fly fishing as well, although coarse fishing was making a bit of a breakthrough when I worked in both Nova Scotia and Alberta.

 

[Krang]

Having lived and worked in the States for a number of years I can assure you that "stocked" trout venues are few and far between.

The vast majority of lure fishing over there is aimed at Bass fishing. My (ex) wife's family were all heavily into bass fishing and I accompanied them a few times but never saw the attraction . . . .

In the huge retail outlets, like Outdoor World, you will see demonstrations by the resident professional bass angler. Within minutes of him (or her) demonstrating a particular lure the shelves will be stripped in record time.

In Canada too the fishing there is pretty much centred of fly fishing as well, although coarse fishing was making a bit of a breakthrough when I worked in both Nova Scotia and Alberta.

I've certainly seen a lot of American bass videos as well as things like this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kCqsvHKjPeg

Also I've seen lots of Australian trout videos.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I1gYLmP9mXM

 

[Molehill]

. Here we get stocked with roach and bream. Those could be trout! How on earth would it not be better if all those stocked "course" fish were trout instead??

Umm, because the trout would die in most of them, they need different conditions and water quality, like cool and more oxygen.

 

[Krang]

Umm, because the trout would die in most of them, they need different conditions and water quality, like cool and more oxygen.

Lots of "course" fisheries are very close to fly only trout fisheries and have similar conditions. Many gravel pits have sufficient depths to retain cool enough water for trout yet these are usually stocked with carp etc.. I don't know a single fishery that stocks both carp and trout. Its always either/or. In some cases, such as shallow venues, your point holds up but there are many cases where the culprit is this outdated "course"/game distinction. Other places, such as the US, view trout as just another game fish alongside bass, perch, walleye etc.. Their fishing gets along perfectly nicely like that. Often they stock rainbow trout for winter fishing when the other species stop feeding.

 

[Molehill]

I'll try and come back to you tomorrow with a proper response and answers to your points. You ask some relevant ones.
I have some knowledge of the trout business, spent about 15 years trout farming and supplying commercial trout fisheries and managed probably 15 commercial fisheries for short lengths of time.
The one thing to appreciate is the word "business", every commercial fishery is run with the intention of providing a living for the owner, not for the angler. They keep the anglers happy in order to make a profit.
The other alternative is club/syndicate diy fisheries run for no profit basis.
Dinner ready now!

 

[chrissh]

Krang. Is it just an attention seeking game you’re playing?
There’s nothing remotely interesting in any of your post infect everything you have posted can be found on google or you tube
Why don’t you post in the trout forum on FM and see how far you get on there!!!