Were/Are Hard Chrome rod rings any good?

[Notts Michael.]

I have an 80's 12ft 6in Match rod, a 3 piece Kassnar, with a 27in long cork handle, sliding ring type reel fittings, only the tip and butt rings are lined with what looks like a white ceramic material, 9 rings/guides in all, the tip is threaded for a swing tip if needed and the other rings are chrome, unlined, stand off type. attaching a reel, line and judging the test curve with a water filled bottle puts it about one and a quarter pound. not a light rod by modern standards, and definitely not carbon, but it is in good condition, apart from......

The whippings are rather loose and it looks like a few rings have moved and don't seem too secure, so I'm wondering wether to have a go at rewhipping the original guides on again as a winter project, or is it a better plan to put some Silicon Carbide lined guides on it? were the chrome rings more 'draggy' than modern rings, or is there little in it from people's experience?
With it having the threaded tip ring would this have been a low end jack of all trades rod rather than a match rod, or were threaded tips fairly common? I was told it cost just short of 20 quid new in the late 80's by the friend that owned it.

 

[no-one in particular]

Personally I like those stand off rings, they keep the line away from the rod which it sticks to when the rod is wet. This applies to some rods more than others and I don't know which material causes it more than others but, I have found it a problem sometimes so, the stand off rings for me. Instead of whipping them all, shrink tube could be used, quicker and maybe neater if your not good at whipping. I don't know what the best shrink tube is for the job though and you will have to be taking all the rings off to use it as you have to shrink tube them in sequence.

 

[sam vimes]

Plenty of rods in the early 80's had lined butt and tip rings with the intermediates unlined. By the time the 90's came along, only budget rods were like that. The biggest problem with them, and early/cheap lined rings, was that they could wear and end up scored. Threaded tip rings were very common in the period. plenty of people used float rods for everything. The addition of screw in quiver, spring and swing tips was common to see. Many more specialized rods were home made by enthusiasts. Having these rings and a threaded tip ring doesn't mean that it's not a float rod.

Putting new SiC rings on it will not be a bad thing. However, the rod itself may not warrant the expense. Chances are that you could buy a better modern rod for the same. or less, than the expense of buying new rings, whipping thread and epoxy.

 

[rob48]

A few years ago when Dave Harrell was designing and putting his name to rods he made a big thing of having chrome, unlined rings on his rods. I think they were the Harrison blanks marketed under the MAP brand following a tie up with Fosters' tackle shop. There was a claimed advantage for them at the time but I can't remember what it was.

 

[Mark Wintle]

There was a fad in the West Midlands for chrome rings at a time when most rods (decent match rods, anyway) were being made with lined rings, less friction/weight supposedly, but use one a lot and grooved rings is the likely outcome. My old John Dean rod has a couple rings that have needed replacing. My second Boron Mach 2 has chrome rings, the first one with fuji SiCs.

Oh, btw, the rod from the OP is just about a decent bean pole....

 

[Notts Michael.]

Markg... I hadn't thought of heatshrink tubing, I do know that some has heat activated glue lining inside the tube, as we use it at work, so that is an option, re using the original guides.
Or re whip the originals with thread and something like clear nail lacquer to see what the rod feels like in use without committing too much money or time to a more thorough re-build. If it feels like a useful addition to the fleet, keep as is, or redo with Silicon carbide lined guides, it's all theory at the minute, good to hear thoughts from others with more experience and knowledge, although the chrome rings show no grooving or wear, I can only guess if that is because they are hard chrome or the rod is very little used. chrome is pretty wear resistant anyway I think.
Interesting to know, Sam Vimes, that the threaded tip was fairly common back then.

 

[xenon]

Think the threaded tip rings were common but only on mid market rods. dedicated match rods (i.e. 13 ft float rods) would not have such a tip ring.

 

[peterjg]

Hard chrome rings were ok, no difference in use really but they did wear. To test a ring run a pin around the ring and you will feel if it's worn at all.

 

[Molehill]

As above, test the rings for wear which is the most important thing. Even take a hand magnifying glass for a look and you will soon see or feel any grooves caused by wear.
Any sign of wear and I would replace them all with lined rings (various options), they will last you out.

 

[no-one in particular]

Markg... I hadn't thought of heatshrink tubing, I do know that some has heat activated glue lining inside the tube, as we use it at work, so that is an option, re using the original guides.
Or re whip the originals with thread and something like clear nail lacquer to see what the rod feels like in use without committing too much money or time to a more thorough re-build. If it feels like a useful addition to the fleet, keep as is, or redo with Silicon carbide lined guides, it's all theory at the minute, good to hear thoughts from others with more experience and knowledge, although the chrome rings show no grooving or wear, I can only guess if that is because they are hard chrome or the rod is very little used. chrome is pretty wear resistant anyway I think.
Interesting to know, Sam Vimes, that the threaded tip was fairly common back then.

I just tried heat tubing on a rod but it was electrician heat tubing which I don't think was very good, I am sure there is better stuff on the market. This was my first experiment, I used boiling water not a lighter, I found this gave a cleaner shrink, no soot. I was also using single leg rings which I also regret. The heat tubing did not really pull down strong enough even though I used double pieces of tubing on each ring, a smaller piece to get the position right and a larger piece over the top. However, the rings pulled out with a bit of force. I mixed some epoxy resin and coated the legs with it and pushed them back, this worked and it is fine now and it looks neat enough. But with double legged rings this might not have been a problem. However as I said I would look for something more specialized for the job once I have used up this lot next time. It is certainly quicker than whipping a load of rings and looks good; although I think whipping looks just a tad better I was still pleased with the result in the end. My first shot at it but better informed now what to do next time. Thought it might give you a few starters if you try it yourself.

 

[Philip]

I am not sure I would bother with the time or cost changing all the rings on the OP rod, I don’t think the rod warrants it and I would just look for a new rod if you need one.

My first proper rod was a Shakesphere 14 foot Alpha Match..it “boasted” having lined tip and butt rings..the rest were unlined. I would not go back to unlined for all the reasons people already mention.

A quick word about high stand off rings which were mentioned, I must say am not a big fan, I think some of the rods nowadays have rings that stand off so far they are begging to get bent. I can understand the idea of keeping the line sticking to the blank especially for things like trotting but on many occasions I think its more a fashion than a need. Travel rods in particular having high stand off rings are just nuts.

Interestingly I just in the last few days saw an avon rod that specifically made mention of having low set rings which interested me allot.

 

[no-one in particular]

I can understand the idea of keeping the line sticking to the blank especially for things like trotting but on many occasions I think its more a fashion than a need. Travel rods in particular having high stand off rings are just nuts.

I have found that a big problem in the past, particularly an Abu float rod I had once, the line used to stick like glue when it rained, never liked the rod.
I remember thinking about spraying it with some permanent water repellent stuff, the sort you can buy to spray window screens. I lost the rod and never got round to it but I wonder if that's not a bad idea anyway.
That rod also had a habit of wrapping the line round the end and snagging the line on the end rings when casting, I didn't know whether it was the type or the spacing of the rings that caused it but I wasn't sorry when the rod went. Put me off buying Abu ever since.

 

[john step]

Put me down for a vote on the not worth the expense side of the thread.
Even at the budget end there are better rods available for the cost of new rings and a better handle.

 

[108831]

To answer the OP's question,compared to todays lined fuji type rings,no,they are totally useless...

 

[trotter2]

In use I really don't find much diffrence TBH. But like said they do tend to grove and need replacing. One thing I will say is I do much prefer 2 or 3 leg rings still. And if I was making a rod or re-ringing I would definitely go with them. Unless there is stronger single leg guide on the market that I don't know about. I find Fuji and seymo are good., but still find that after you straighten them a couple of times they can snap off. I always carry rods in tubes but still get the odd one bent once in a while. Double legs you never have any bother imo. Does it make any diffrence to the action of the rod maybe a slight amount but think I could live with that for the extra durability. When manufacturers srarted using epoxy to cover the whippings it was common to see great big blobs used on the whippings ,still something to be said for using the old method of a few layers of varnish.

 

[Keith M]

Most of the rods that we used to make at home from rod kits during the 70s and 80s had hard chrome rings and they only had their tip and butt rings lined, and sometimes only the tip rings were lined; and some of the classic rods of the day had no lined rings at all, like the long range Jim Gibbinson Clooper Carp rods which I built from rod kits that I bought from Goings Bros of Southend back in the mid to late 70s.

Lined rod rings have improved no end today and can be much thinner and lighter so I wouldn’t choose to have any unlined rod rings on my rods now, but it isn’t the end of the world if you do, unlined hard chrome rod rings weren’t as bad as some people say, as long as you gave them a good check over every now and then.

Even lined rings can develop hair line cracks in them which can seriously damage your line, and I’ve had an intact rod ring liner fall out completely on one of my more modern Barbel rods not that long ago.

Keith

 

[fishingcarpenter]

afternoon all, l also like the chrome standoffs ,stronger than 1 legged rings. to make them last a very long time use a long thin piece of material with metal polish on it,auto solvo,is brill and pull the material back and forth for a while.it not only removes small groves but also reduces the friction a good deal , being highly polished they are less likely to corrode. the loss whipping can be revarnished. my 1970s abu float rods have been given this treatment when i brought them from ebay for about£12 each as they looked tatty but are my most used rods .regards fishingtrevor

 

[no-one in particular]

I don't recall ever having groves occur in these type of wire stand off rings. I always viewed it as the tip ring took all the pressure and abrasion but the other rings hardly any. So a lined tip ring was essential but I never worried about the other rings. It must happen though as others have experienced it, and I would prefer lined rings throughout.
I reckon those ceramic rings must have been pretty good. I took one off that old rod, I am not sure if it was the original but it must be very old, there are no grooves on it or wear and I have had a good look under a magnifying glass.

 

[Richox12]

My first proper rod was a Shakesphere 14 foot Alpha Match..it “boasted” having lined tip and butt rings..the rest were unlined. I would not go back to unlined for all the reasons people already mention.

I used my Alpha's a LOT. Black tips as well. Never wore a ring out. But I saw plenty of 'Hard' chromed rings that were worn. Mostly tips.

 

[Richox12]

In use I really don't find much diffrence TBH. But like said they do tend to grove and need replacing. One thing I will say is I do much prefer 2 or 3 leg rings still. And if I was making a rod or re-ringing I would definitely go with them. Unless there is stronger single leg guide on the market that I don't know about. I find Fuji and seymo are good., but still find that after you straighten them a couple of times they can snap off. I always carry rods in tubes but still get the odd one bent once in a while. Double legs you never have any bother imo. Does it make any diffrence to the action of the rod maybe a slight amount but think I could live with that for the extra durability. When manufacturers srarted using epoxy to cover the whippings it was common to see great big blobs used on the whippings ,still something to be said for using the old method of a few layers of varnish.

The guides will flex so the action will be relatively unaffected. But the extra weight (much more the whipping + epoxy than metal) and affected balance are the thing. If you can live with it then fine. I cut down my first lined guides decades ago to make single legged guides before you could commercially buy them., Massive difference.